Hard to catch slide without stability control

With low latency I find AC is very accurate in the way it portrays the cars, at least the ones where I have experience with both sim an real life.

 

Ok...this thread is gone. I'll open a new one with my findings.

 

At least nobody said the classic "human eye can't see more than 24fps, so..."

 

Higher fps gives less frame time per frame, independent of screen refresh rate. Less frame time means the game's graphics run faster (in the case of AC, game physics and fps aren't connected, so the physics will respond at the same time whether you limit the game to 30 fps or run it at 90, but a person also responds to what his brain sees; so having too slow frames isn't that convenient).

Pros in CS:GO (counter strike) play at 144hz with 1ms, and usually at 300fps or above. They lower the game graphics, doesn't matter for them when competing in tournaments. If their screen or game graphics update later than the enemy, they are at disadvantage.

http://www.hardwarepal.com/frame-time-calculator-fps/
30fps 33.3ms; 60fps 16.7ms; 120fps 8.3ms; 144fps 6.9ms; 300fps 3.3ms. Even if your screen refreshes at 60hz, the game appears smoother to the eye/brain because the frames are rendered faster.
The idea is that on a 60hz monitor, 60fps take longer to render than 120fps. Even if the monitor only shows 60 frames per second, the time of each frame to be rendered by the game is more delayed than 120 frames per second, because 60fps takes 16.7ms to be rendered, and 120fps takes 8.3ms.

 

And then we get driving games, compared to a first person shooter they are VERY slow?

 

Ac was kinda difficult to catch slides back before kunos worked on the ffb and fixed some issues with the tire self aligning torque. Back then ac ffb kinda fought against you when you tried to countersteer. Kunos did great job with improving the ffb. Back then I think ac ffb was one of the worst. Not even close to rf2 or rf1 realfeel and behind iracing. But nowadays the ffb is really quick and communicative even if with some lighter cars you get these "impulses" and spikes.

But now I think we are in the other extreme. Cars are incredibly easy to catch. Most of the time all you really need to do is to lift for a nanosecond and then with a quick movement with the wheel the rear is back in. At bigger slides it almost feels like there is some barrier at 45 degrees or so. When you reach that slip angle the car just stays there and you can pretty much hold your throttle and steering wheel where they are and the car keep sliding on an arc ad infinitum. You get these huge effortless doriftos no matter what car you are driving.

One of the reasons for the easy driving in ac I'm starting to suspect is that effectively what should be tire traction circle is more of a grip square. This would create two kind of situations that I personally feel are happening when I drive in ac. First is that at high slip angles there is very little drop off in grip. And the 2nd one is that in combined slip when you are in a drift for example adding throttle seems to add grip.

Back when the merc sls road car came out I was a bit disappointed with it. It felt super easy and forgiving to drive on the limit compared to the other supercars. But nowadays the sls feels the most realistic out of them (458, mp4). It could be the electronic diff but the mp4 and 458 seem to have this ability to drive out of corners really fast in big power slides without any fear of spinning out or feel of any limit that if you go voer you need to lift to reel it back in. Too much power just creates an effortless power slide which does slow down your acceleration but doesn't feel like the tire has gone over its peak grip and is losing any grip. It kinda feels like getting those cars to drive out of corners is not about throttle control at all. It is all about trajectory. But in combined slip (lots of drift, lots of throttle) the cars in ac currently feel like there is more grip than it should.

One other thing that I think supports this idea is that slides happen really slowly. This suggest that there very little differences in grip when sliding and not sliding. Generally the bigger the difference between the slide and the not sliding the faster and more abrupt the regaining of the grip is. Iracing for example has tons more drop off and when you get into a slide you are effectively fighting this ball of misery when the tiniest slide can make the car fishtail out of control. In ac to get the car to fishtail requires huge slip angles and being very late with your steering inputs.

I find it very odd that someone would say catching slides in ac is hard. Maybe we are driving different cars. I drive pretty much anything except the prototypes and fast single seaters and I'm not feeling any difficulties at all.

 

Brilliant post.

 

its odd, I seem to remember you use a belt driven wheel (fana if I remember correctly) so similarish to me but I have the opposite experience. up to 1.2 was great for me. im not as keen on the ffb now. 312t is a good example, I get massive ffb on curbs to the point I have to run next to no ffb and loads of damping so the wheel isnt floppy. I can have pretty loose, unresponsive wheel under normal conditions then really high ffb when I countersteer (that one is particularly noticeable in the gta) are you using very low deg of rotation? apart from sliding on throttle out of the turns im lucky if I catch a slide. the cobra on its proper tyres feels WAY harder than in 1.2 to me. if it starts to slide I cant do anything to retrieve it :/

 

The way I set up my ffb is to have relatively high filter to get rid of any high frequency vibrations while still keeping most of the info there. I have 911 turbo s that is still in mint condition despite being from 2008: http://imgur.com/jd97YQm. I run with 48% gain, 47% filter and 6% minforce. I turn ffb to 85% ish inside ac for about every car. With all effects off. I do run little faster rotation speed but not much. My filter is probably high enough so it cancels out some of the spikes on kerbs.

 

Traction circle for the whole car looks fine imo. A bit flat under acceleration but that's fully expected from a rwd car isn't it?

For the high slip angle grip I'm always surprised to see in academic papers how much grip there is even a ridiculous angles. The drop off really is small on real life tire data I would be surprised Kunos underestimated it.

It is too easy to catch slides but I'm not sure it's in the grip that something is missing.

 

thanks for the info mate, I have 20% filter currently. I might try more. im using 1080deg in game and profiler, sometimes I forget to change profiler so I have 900 there instead. I will try 720 in both and see if it helps. id be interested to know if you find the cobra on vintage tyres easy to catch

 

@dauntless, what do you think about the F40 ? Personally it's one of the only cars I drive because it still has a semblance of challenge to it, as far as controlling it at and over the limit. It's still not difficult (except maybe braking), but at least there's something there. In comparison the Yellowbird is unspinnable until you completely kill the tyres.

 

@William Levesque So anything that's easy to drive is unrealistic? How hard is it to drive a car, really? It's not THAT hard, is it?

 

Creating tyre physics, thats hard.

 

Driving ? No.

Pushing to the absolute limit and over and then things get a little hairy ? A little more

 

Which car is that?

 

I think it's worth pointing out here that framerate in AC is not locked on my PC. I just thought the rest of the sim racing world would like to know.

 

I tried something that would make a real car un-driveable but helped a lot with under steer of the F40 in my set up.

Toe out all way in front and in all the way in the back.

Now at stock AC set up, without Stability control or anything else it feels like I'm trying to steer the F40 with about 1500 degree steering sensitivity. I would blame the wheel, which I'm not really happy with, but most cars drive very nice. I can tell how close to real they are in virtual reality. One of the cars that drive the best is the Yellow Bird Ruf. Now talk about turbo lag and short wheel base hard to drive car. This thing is the best VR experience to date. Full marks Assetto Corsa.

 

Great post if we all have the exact same set up and settings but every set up acts very different judging from everything I have read about sim racing. And if mine works better then that means I'm a better driver is just silly. I love to drive hard to control cars. I build and race V8 Chevy Vegas in real life. I know what out of control feels like and know when something is not right. If you have too much traction and control with your sim set up, I truly feel bad for you.

 

Or maybe you're just not that good when you don't feel anything in your butt ‎( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

We've learned to deal with the feedback sims give, clearly you didn't, yet at least. Unless your hardware is completely out of whack, it's all on you. Any properly setup and decent hardware will do just fine to control cars.