Progressive system penalty

Running inside can be slower too.

That's why in my opinion the penalty should be set according to the time/positions gained, rather than the line driven. This way, it is allowed to run wide, as long as you don't gain time.

Driving two wheels on track and two on kerb is ok, driving four wheels on kerb is off track, leading to a penalty if it gains time/positions.

The difficult thing is to estimate the gain of time in every case. Sometimes a cut can make you lose a bit of time offtrack, but enables you to come back on track with a higher speed and to recover the lost time in the following straightline. I think such estimation should investigate the time gained until the next brake zone after the cut... and/or from the previous brake zone if the cut enables to brake later. Any position gained between those boundaries is to be given back in the 3 laps (except if it's gained over a crashed/standing/offtrack car).

I like the realistic penalties such as warning, drive-through and black flag. The server settings could enable the admin to chose strict/tolerant settings by defining after how many cuts a racer gets a drive through, for instance.

 

Main objective of penalties is to force people to drive and compete correctly and be sure everybody is on the same boat when it comes to honest race pace and track behaviour...

@WallyM if a driver drives wrong way for more than 10 seconds it should be an automatic DSQ, return to pits and stay there until he decides to quit... no ghost car, that's arcade just like the 5 second penalty

 

At the moment I don't believe you get dirty tyres from running wide onto tarmac run off areas. Now it wouldn't stop the people who charge through the Monza T1 chicane, but it would be a further punishment for people who are trying to bend the rules by running wide and gaining time. It need not be as severe as the gravel on tyres where your tyres feel like they have oil on them, but a similar grip loss but to a smaller degree.

 

This reminds me of the constant request made of iRacing for their penalty system to punish only the driver at fault, rather than all parties involved in a collision. Sure, if someone starts driving the wrong way around a track causing a crash, or chooses not to brake for a corner, any human can see whose fault it it. But the system can't - especially with contact in 'normal' racing where it's much less clear-cut. Likewise, AC can't tell if you stormed through a chicane or got punted off. For my money, the closest solution so far is the app previously mentioned, which tracks things like the speed difference coming back on to the track. Combined with other factors I'd hope that something that works most of the time could be implemented. After that, the penalty itself doesn't really matter (so long as it is proportionate to the offence (and isn't a 5 second accelerator ban)).

 

Yes for the current implementation but Kunos could take such an idea and build it into the game code itself. If it gave pramaters for server side setup even better and also have an auto penalty for extreme cheat cuts. The app as it is works great in a league with honest drivers. It can also be made invisible so it only shows when you make a cut and gives you your cut tally.

For such a thing to have any impact on public servers the possible abuses of such a system also need to be closed up.

Tracks should have sections marked such as Monza/Imola chicanes where a huge blatant cut can gige a big advantage. Anyone going throught there gaining a signficant time on their delta should be auto kicked to pit. Even the 5 second silly slowdown doesnt stop this cut. People can straightline sections get the slowdown but still gain 5 seconds on some tracks so it doesnt work either.

 

I agree that a "built in" application like this would be extremely useful. Surely this is what the likes of GT Legends and GTR2 had by default?

 

I think that's the problem with an automated system, particularly for car to car contact. I've never played Iracing, so the only car "game" I've played with any kind of automated punishment was one of the latter TOCA race driver games. However you would often get hit from behind by a car, then you would get punished, so it was a ridiculous system.

 

Take the speed differential before the penalty is applied and whether there was contact prior. A positive rate of change means you were accelerating through the section after contact. That could be a start point to determine of you are hit off track in which case you aren't penalised.

You could also use the g force data.


There's definatly clever ways to do this using information already available in the physics engine.

 

I think if there is an automated collision system I sure hope we have the option to disable it, even in real racing you need real people to decide on collision penalties. No automated system will ever be fair, in terms of track limits and gaining an advantage while being off track then even if the game gets it a little wrong its not a huge deal. After all if your off track you made a mistake but collisions and racing incident I cant even imagine how complicated it would need to be just to be right half the time, in that case it may as well be penalty roulette. Proper damage will be one thing that stops people having contact with others, if they hit someone on the start line and cant resume the race they may consider not doing that next time. Damage does punish both parties but also if we can see whos cars have damage we can see who had contact and then view back a replay to see who was at fault, if penalties are to be enforced on that server by an admin.

 

Yeah that's all great but in public lobbies there is no replays, no admins, no humans to apply penalties. For league racing this doesn't even really matter, if your in a league everyone should be decent enough to avoid things like AFK, going the wrong way etc. this stuff should be tackled first since it's the most annoying.

But yes you are right, a complex system is required, but nothing is impossible. Start at basics first maybe Kunos can trial out their foundations first.

 

No, it's wrong to think in league racing everyone is good and respectful drivers, lots of times people cut the track, it's hard to check that, others don't respect blue flags and still battling you, ruining your race, some others overtake during yellow flags etçª, then people sometimes are lazy or don't want to bother making a protest. So a fair system will be better for all, no matter what kind of racing you do...

 

Yes, the question is also about which is the best system: human or artificial intelligence. That's why it could be relevant to give the server admins the choice of which one to apply, according to circumstances. Of course, it needs admin commands to give penalties, drive through, and so on...

 

One thing which no one has suggested yet is how about giving the server admin certain powers to penalise drivers?

Perhaps not things like issuing drive throughs or giving them black flags (or maybe?), but more warnings for bad driving which could flash up on their screen;

"you have received a warning from race-control about the standard of your driving" etc.

The server admin could be in control of this and then once they have been warned etc, then they can start dishing out penalties if required. So if an admin sees a driver cut, he can click a button and give them a warning for example (which would show up on their screen). Or if a driver is just misbehaving then they can be kicked (which we already have of course).

 

How about some kind of electric shock system?

 

Hi guys.. sorry to be late to this thread. Thx to Michael for pointing me here. I'll try to give an answer to everybody, so bare with me, many post coming.

First I'd like to give a collective answer to everybody (including OP) who suggests a system with "warnings"..sorry but no. It won't work, in the mind of the cheater a warning is just a "fine I can do this once or twice".. so every uncontrolled race at Monza will have drivers cutting the first variante 1-2-3 times, depending on how many warnings you allow.

It's also important to understand what's the final target here: we need to punish cheaters (people that deliberately cut corners) but, at the same time, try to not alienate people that make honest mistakes (miss the braking point at Monza for example).

The reason why I believe the current system is a good one is because it actually sort of does that.. it punishes by slowing down people that try to cut the corners as fast as possible (actually, the punishment is not enough as I hear that cutting at Monza is still faster even with the penalty).. but it really doesn't impact honest mistakes.. if I am long at the chicane I'll probably end up in the grass quite slow, I already lost time, coming back on the track with a speed <50kmh is:
1) The right thing to do anyway for rejoining safely
2) not a big waste compared to the fact that I missed the corner all together

Still... getting big slowdowns for going wide is BAD and very dangerous.. so we'll have to work harder to better differentiate the area that actually need penalties in the first place.

 

I like drive thru because it's safe and easy to code.. but, it stills open up the question of what to do if you cut on the last lap? Not only that, what happens if you don't do the drivetru? What if you speed up in the pitlane during the drivetru? In other words.. it's not a "standalone" solution, it needs other solutions in place which makes it an headache to code, test and maintain.

I tried to code the voluntary off throttle penalty.. it's tricky as in AC we don't have all the info needed to understand if you are doing it to clear a penalty or because a corner is approaching... in order to work it needs to be N consecutive seconds off gas before next corner.. so many corner cases (no pun intended). I think it's easier for iR because the number of cars/track combination is limited and fixed, allowing them to have a reference pre calculated gas activity line to compare with.

 

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...a-scenario-based-analysis-of-6-methods.19192/

Hi Stefano, did you get a chance to read this thread? I think there are some good suggestions for alternatives that's actually feasible to program in. If you don't like warnings, some of the methods would still work rather well and worth looking into.

 

That is a very good idea.. but what if this is a Race only event? It won't work.

I actually coded a system that I love that uses the performance timer information you can find in the relative app to work out if you had some gains from the cut or not and decided if you need to be penalized or not.. it can even allow you to slowdown to give back the time gained to avoid the sanction... the problem is, what if there are no laps to compare to? At the moment tho, this is my most promising system.

 

At T1, Monza, a 15 to 20 second penalty would be good. Second chicane 15 secs and in Ascari 5 secs as you dont gain that much time

 

I like the time penalty.. it's very clear and very easy to code and manage...but... as with every system I've analyzed, it's not perfect. If my opponent cuts a corner in order to overtake me.. he has got a time penalty on his head but he is physically in front me and I'll have to deal with it until the race is over.
Plus.. it creates a separation between the track position leaderboard and the real one with added time.. which one you show during the race? I am 2nd, the guy in front of me has 60s penalty.. so really I am 1st.. but do the gui show me 1 or 2? IIRC Forza ignores the time penalties until the end of the race.