991S vs M4 vs C7 - Porsche is way off pace?

The older 991S with less power, less torque, and less grip was faster than both the m4 and the c7 vette in real life by legit drivers (randy pobst for example). The new one is faster in every way so it should at least be competitive but I'm finding it on pace with the m4 And a second slower on most tracks than the vette?

Is the Porsche that far off or the other two cars (m4/c7) way out doing their real counter parts? I'm honestly guessing the 991S should be upwards of 2.5 seconds faster than the m4.

 

What I found when I tried the Carrera S is that its absolutely horrendous in high speed corners vs most other cars. Like it makes twice as much lift.

 

I was wondering about this, because the 991.2S is much faster than the previous gen, so much that the base 991.2 is now as fast as the previous 991S in some cases, and faster than the M4, without any options and a manual gearbox.
The difference could be because the 991 is on Tyre Model V10, and the other 2 on V7, but I wouldn't think it's that much of a difference.

 

IMHO One more factor could be that Porsche underestimate their power figures in real life. While in game, car power output most probably equal to claimed numbers, not dynoed.

 

I don't know how are you driving them and on which track, but here are my results on Nurburgring Sprint
Porsche 911 Carrera S - 1.42.097
Chevrolet Corvette C7 Stingray - 1.44.19
BMW M4 - 1.45.847
You can see the full list here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YyVA1ABQRxyr8yCVCZIzGYH6C49WpJ88GWmOA2Hu4DU/edit#gid=0

Also I wanna say that you can't get the Porsche and drive it like a M4, and expect to get its best time. You need to drive every car accordingly to their behavior use their own strength and weakness to get the most of them, otherwise you'll just get nothing near of what the car is capable of.

 

Same thing with the m4, bmw are sandbagging big time

 

I'll give that track a run, but having owned two Porsches (997 gt3 and a 996c2) and literally spending 100's of hours on track (big willow, Laguna seca, what was sears point, button willow and Fontana race way) I do have a reasonable amount of seat time in a 911.

It's also worth noting online with 2 friends we are finding the same result on mugello, imola and donnington, lastly the AI is ~2.5+ seconds faster in the c7 over the 991 - at 99% difficulty. My test track is Mugello due to lots of off camber turns, elevation changes, 2 sweepers, 2 double apex turns and a long straight.

TC is off but I've run both ways. Any long sweepers and I simply can't get the power down as soon or as cleanly as the c7 or the m4 - this compounds in chicanes.

In game the Porsche launches like a mad man destroying the m4 and vette off the line, you can brake deeper, trail brake better and off throttle steer the 991 amazingly well. It's also more forgiving than what I am use to but I've only driven the normally aspirated 991s in real life. Still all this and it's slower.

 

I only got to try the BMW M4 (1:43:940) and the 911 (1:42:612).And this is on a track that should be advantageous to the 911.Here's the thing, it feels right to me, pulls hard out of corners, steers beautifully, nice suspension, however, the weight transfer seems more severe than in the old RSR, and there seems to be a lack of downforce on the front.I can't really see what's wrong with it and why it isn't faster...
@detoit: Since you had several 911's, is it anything you find odd about the in-game car?

@Aristotelis: Could it be that the C7 and M4 are so much faster because of Tyre Model V7 vs TM10 on the Porsche? I'm only asking because I think you did a great job on the 991 Carrera S, yet it's slower than those 2.

 

So I gave that track a try with all three cars.

Agreed the Porsche is faster here! It requires a lot more work than the vette to get that time and gobs more effort than the m4.. but of the tracks I've tried this is the only one the 911s is faster at.

- special note - it took me 6-7 laps with the c7, 5 laps with the m4 and 11-12 for the Porsche (I ran out of fuel). Suspension is stock and fuel was left with the default 30 liters. Abs is on on all cars, and traction control was off for vette and Porsche but on level 2 for the BMW.

I find it odd that I'm faster in the vette and more so in the bmw but way off your Porsche pace. I know given 10 more laps I could lose 1/2 a second but I don't think I could catch up to you on stock tires ever, your Porsche time is out of sight for me.

Nathan

 

Berry,

First thing I noted and the other guy I race with online (another track Junkie and like me has done racing in the past but has retired to shifter karts for any wheel to wheel action- he actually has a 997c2 S currently) - when a modern 911 gets under heavy braking you get more forward rotation (tilt) on the car and your initial turn in is much sharper. The off throttle steering we see in game feels good but the car feels very heavy and momentum seems to fly away quickly. Neither of us has driven the new turbo charged 991s but this virtual engine bogs down a lot more and quickly when sliding out at the end of a turn, in real life this is a joy. The 911 rs in game in fact does that beautifully.. it actually exhibits better 911 attributes. It's a blast to drive virtually.

We also both feel like it's bouncing around a lot. All three of us are running in VR and it feels like that suspension is not in sports mode. In fact my cars "comfort mode" is harsher than what we are seeing in game on the 911 (Nissan gtr is my current real life car).

Lots of good stuff going on here and the best representation of a modern 911 in any game by a huge amounts - but those complaints were immediate to us all. Just how hard it is to tick off good times consistently is NOT indicative to the 996/997/991. In fact the exact opposite. More in the comparison of the vette, which in real life is a absolute chore to drive at 9/10ths or above (randy pobst will adhere to this opinion as well) - the Porsche on the other hand can be driven above its cohesion limit and spit out comfortable times because it's so easy to drive. This excludes the gt3!! That's a workout.. I've owned one, driven two
And rode along in the 997 gt3 rs 4.0 - which to this date is the most exciting car I've ever been in.

Nathan

 

Updated

- if I increase negative camber to -1.4 in front
- add a little more in the rear -2.4
- reduce tire pressure in front by 2 psi and rear 1 psi

I can achieve 1:42.1x

However, I am betting just reducing tire pressure in the c7 can get me below 1:42.5.

 

@detoit You see? I tould you it can go faster =) But I didn't changed anything, just grab and go.

 

Try it on the other tracks. See if your experience holds. Mugello, Imola, catalunya, donnington or the north loop.. where it should shine it does not in my opinion.

 

@detoit Well, if you driven 911 Carrera S IRL, then you should know better how the car should feel, because I didn't =)
But I'll try it on Imola, and see what I can achive.

 

In the recent Motor Trend drivers car test, the Carrera went 1s quicker than the M4 GTS, so i agree it should trash the M4 by a larger margin.
Part of why it isn't as quick as it should is the V10 tire model i'm sure of it, cars on V10 move a lot more than similar cars on V7.

With that said the Carrera has a quite brutal mid corner oversteer... is it just the weight transfer(i thought Porsche was more or less on top of it) of the rear engine? Or is something like the rear wheel steering not working perfectly?
Either way right now the car doesn't like to enter corners super fast, it's better to enter slow and be early on throttle(traction is amazing).

 

I noticed that on driving RBR yesterday.
T4 and less pronounced T5 the rear starts to slide, in T4 it really goes on and takes long to get it inline again so you can accelerate really late there.
I haven't tried it but it felt like trying to catch the slide faster would have unsettled the car.

I have never been in a 911, but from what I read and saw of the 997 and 991 cars they are really strong on exits with great traction for RWD cars.

 

It oversteers way to easy compared to every video or even in reference to a guy who owns one and tells me that the car is superbly balanced and doesn't really under-steer or over-steer in any normal or spirited driving conditions (he also instantly came to a conclusion that the 4ws might wrong). Either way, I love the car and was looking forward to it, but I find it hard to believe that a car known to be an absolute monster traction wise, over-steers so easily as well as under-steers.

 

It does have great traction, you can even catch the oversteer by applying power, mid corner is where it kicks out imo.

 

That's what I meant, too.
It starts to oversteer after turn-in while coasting and there it would be too early to open throttle, even with a stable car.

 

It's "turn in" on throttle or on brake is considerably worse than reality or the other cars similar in performance virtually. Having to constantly lift throttle almost completely to get pointed in the right direction in mid speed turns is very odd - it's easy to catch the tail and power through but the virtual Vette is better in almost every way on track - the m4 is just about on par but easier to drive.

It's disappointing honestly - but after seeing the thread by wally "car time ranking" my suspicions are no longer suspicions - the 991 is grossly off pace. At Mugello my guess it's a minimum of 3.5 seconds off pace from its real counter part.

Below is not my fastest time - (2:10.1) but I've done better in both the vette and the m4.

Let's hope adjustments will be made. Minimum they should be on similar tire models