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Noob back with new replay and new questions

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by St3fan, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. I didn't explain well myself. I was only telling that when you are at 4000rpm in 4th gear and you downshift to 3rd, you should get around 5000rpm. I wasn't intending that you had to enter the turn at 5000 :)
    Do it at a safe speed. The lap time won't improve at first try, but only when you are calm and start having control of the car.
    The advantage of using a longer gear (when you can) is:
    - while coasting, the engine brakes less, and the car rolls better (faster)
    - while accelerating: it is easier to accelerate without spins and in almost every case this fully compensate the small difference of power. This is valid only if the engine has enough torque at low rpms (eg: don't use a F1 accelerating from 4000 rpm because the engine is made to run better at higher revs :) )
     
  2. I should've clarified that braking should be done in a straight line in addition to keep your wheels straight. If the car is yawing/rotating, adding braking will make things worse.
    Using smaller steering inputs and taking corners in the least amount of curvature should help with that since it'll make the car wobble less.
    I just drove the thing and managed 2:06.xxx. Did have it set to factory ABS, though(everything else off), because I just wanted to focus on learning the tracko_O. The car handles like a boat so you really have to be smooth with the steering and feel the mass moving.
    I can probably shave a second or two if I rotate the car more to set it up for better corner exit acceleration.
    But, as the others are suggesting, I think it'll be beneficial for you if you turn the ABS on and focus on learning how to manage the loads going through the tires from smoother input. That way, it'll come in handy dealing with no ABS later because your inputs will be smoother by then.
    Also, I did emphasize on getting on the brakes firmly, but what's more important as one picks up the pace is how you ease off the brakes.

    Looking at your replay again, I think saying this will be beneficial: imagine unwinding your steering through the corner. This will help you maximize corner exit. Currently you're steering through the apexes and choking on some of the corner exits.

    Here's a video I found someone else doing a fast lap around Imola in the 1M, it could help or hurt, but you can kind of see how he gets on the brakes and eases off the brakes as he's rotating the car. Setting the car up as he enters the corner allows him to get on throttle sooner for the exit. Pay good attention to the pedal gauges and his steering. Small inputs. It's a bit messier than what I would like, though..


    Oh, and for cars without ABS, you have to become ABS yourself and pump/modulate the brakes to stop the wheels from locking up. Maximum braking grip is achieved when the wheels are rotating tiny bit slower than the road.
     
  3. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Yep, let's make it a challenge minigame - there is one rule: you have to have full throttle before or right at the apex (closest moment to the inside kerbs) and not lift it afterwards (unless for stopping powerslide).
    If it results with you going off track, it means you were too fast in later stage of the corner and possibly had too early apex. If you manage to pull that off in most corners of one lap it will probably result in PB regardless of how hard you slowed down mid corner to achieve that.
    hint: use late apexes and a little brakes (instead of throttle) while going around corners, it will be much easier to do.
    Well in first and second chicanes you do go into the first turn fast and then lift off or accelerate very late out of the second turn. If you were able to take more serpentine line there would be no need for lifting, resulting in better speed on following straight. So yeah more steering, and if you feel that the car would be too unstable while doing that, slow down a little more.

    Also AC features IMHO the best trainee car(tm) of any racing sim :p. The lotus 2-11. It's handling is not perfect or anything, but it's great in forcing a player to drive properly. Try it, and instead of getting frustrated with how it handles, think of how to use it to get good laptimes. I almost guarantee you will be faster in other cars after a longer session in the 2-11.
     
    mangal and forkmeupscotty like this.
  4. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    As many people suggested, I tried put the ABS settings to factory default, which gives 1M ABS. Now I find the braking is amazingly better, and on the straight before the corner I have a lot more confidence pressing the pedal.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. You mean for this car the strategy would be slow down more into the corner to allow the car to take a set earlier?

    I tried several cars this morning, 1M, Lotus 2-11, and the Abarth. Compared to the Lotus I really feel that 1M feels extremely boat-like, and when I drive the Lotus I feel a god lot more confident. I think I'm going to switch between these three cars now and then and switch between ABS on and ABS off for the following weeks of practicing. I'm considering switching back and forth between Imola and some other track. Could you please give a suggestion which track I should try as a beginner? Thank you!
     
  5. Nao

    Nao Alien

    @St3fan yeah 1M is a nice boat :p~ actually did you try the M3 E92? It's much better behaved while having the same layout and brand. It's a paddle shifter thou :p (Drift version has stick, but it's tail happy)
    A thing to remember when running without ABS, is that that not all tyre screeching noises are bad, a tyre that brakes hard at proper threshold can generate almost as much noise as completely locked one. And when it finally starts to lock and loose grip, only a small lift is required to regain traction, to around half the pressure. Then as you hear screeching sounds fade reapply the pressure. Work them like medieval slaves! :D, if nobody whines/screams, it means nothing is being done :p

    Imola is pretty hard track with many tricky corners that require a lot of different skills to clear properly. Personally i would recommend Mugello or Vallelunga. Both tracks are great, Mug might be more fun (especially with high downforce cars) but Vall is a great all round package and the tricky parts done wrong does not kill you instantly like on Imola so it's more natural to push hard and learn from mistakes.

    Also if you are interested check out my replay. If you look at the pedal app, especially in Tosa, Piratelli and Aqua minerali corners, you can notice that i apply throttle right after getting the foot of the brakes (and how early full throttle is achieved) . And when all the tyres are close to limit on corner entry, applying full throttle instantly does not have much adverse effects on balance and requires only a slight reduction in steering angle as the throttle is applied. (Note that i do not take the best lines and generally slow down too much, but it's still faster than going fast in - slow out. :p)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
    mistery likes this.
  6. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    To be honest the reason I've been using 1M so much is because the first time I played the game, I wanted to drive an M3, but chose the wrong car XD. Now I love Lotus soooo much, it feels so stable, so smooth, and so fun.
    What I feel about driving without ABS is that, for example at the straight before Tumbrello and at the downhill part before Rivazza, I find it very hard to brake. Even a half-way press-down on the brake paddle will make me feel that the car begins to point to a direction with an angle to the track. Does this mean I've already locked up the wheels? I've had so many times when my car completely goes sideways and off the track at these places, so I tend to brake lightly and have the "testy" kind of braking.

    I'm totoally crap at Vallelunga (this is the first track in the career mode, is that right?). I can't get a gold in the career mode, and I can't point the car toward the exit at any of the corners. I go off the track, and onto a slope at different corners...
     
  7. Magione.

    It's short, (easy to memorize the layout) simple, (or so it seems) and overall slow enough that you won't need to reset when you mess up most of the time.
    Turn off all apps and any aids that aren't ABS or autoclutch. Drive the track and pretend you are driving your Father-In-Law's car with him in the passenger seat.
    Make laps until you dream about it. Make more laps. Not even close; more laps.
    Once you know the track and can make several consecutive laps without spinning or having an 'off', enable your ghost car and start 'racing' it.
     
  8. mistery

    mistery Hardcore Simmer

    I agree with Michael. For learning purposes Magione is probably the best track in the game. It is so short and so tricky it just incorporates everything from sweepers to hard switchbacks and requires heavy breaking as well. It's just such a great tool for learning weight shifting.
    Also changing cars every now and then is a good idea. You don't want to get stuck on one car because you are missing out on much of the (awesome) experience AC has to offer.
    While the event you mentioned with the MX-5 is disheartening, you have to consider that your gaming pedals have nowhere near the feel of the pedals of real life cars so your experience in the sim will not directly translate to real world driving. Even the MX-5 has a hydraulic system assisted by a servo. A plastic pedal with potentiometers will not really replicate that unless you get into serious modding with springs etc. Also, I recommend a very good set of tires for your girlfriend's safety and also enjoyment.
     
  9. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    I actually didn't realize her MX-5 had no ABS until I locked up the tires at that time... But actually my experience with no ABS in game helped nicely during the event because at least I didn't panic at all and felt very conscious and aware what was happening during that moment.

    As for the game, I feel the experience is totally different for me after I turn on in-game ABS. I think I'll try to turn it off again after I understand the basics, at least after reaching around 2:08 in 1M.

    My favorites in the game are now 1M at Imola, 1M at Magione, 2-11 at Imola, 2-11 at Magione, Abarth at Imola, and Abarth at Magione. I'll be back after I improve and meet new questions. Thanks for the advice.
     
    forkmeupscotty likes this.
  10. Nao

    Nao Alien

    There is pretty big difference in braking on slippery surfaces (like you had in the MX-5) to what happens on racetrack on sunny day (both in AC and IRL). The important thing is what i like to call ratio of overall grip level to wheel weight.
    When the grip is very low (rain, ice, old street tyres etc) overbraking makes grip:
    1) go down hard as soon as slip threshold is passed and
    2) is in general very low (low friction coeff).
    This means that even completely lifting brake pedal after full wheel lock could require up to whole second for the grip to spin the wheel back to car speed.

    Now when racing on grippy surface with hot semislicks and overbraking, the grip:
    1) goes down gradually, and only when the wheel is completely locked (the contact surface of the tyre starts to boil "greasing" the connection) the drop in grip is significant.
    2) overall grip is generally many times higher, not only by better friction coefficient but by much higher front loads that happen under high deaccelerations.
    This means that the forces are several times higher compared to previous point, while the wheel weight is the same. At this point only a small lift of the brake pedal generates big enough change in net forces on the wheel to spin it back up much faster. Also since the grip drops more gradually, there it takes more time to actually lock the wheel (the generally higher speeds achieved on racetracks add to that too).
    This makes actually balancing around the threshold braking point easier, and pretty different than what we know from experience of slippery roads IRL (in stock streetcars).

    So bottom line: In AC don't be afraid to brake hard, and when you feel/hear wheels locking lift brakes only a little and then reapply the pressure. Like i mentioned it before, work them (tyres) like slaves and be only satisfied when their lamentation never stops :D on grippy track they can take it.
    It's for example perfectly possible in AC to spin the wheels very slow but without locking, like it happens in F1 cars on inside wheels (where drivers avoid flatspots by keeping the wheel rotating the minimal speed), while at the same time it's virtually impossible to do it in slippery conditions (for both AC and IRL).

    ps: I highly recommend messing around with brake gamma setting also, (on per car basis) it can really help getting good precision braking from the limited hardware we all use. (Try both low and high values, highs are good for trailbraking, lows are nice for straight line)... Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
    forkmeupscotty and mistery like this.
  11. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    After screwing around with different cars/tracks/games, tonight I went back to my old combination BMW 1M+Imola (with ABS on this time, though). I missed the braking point at Torsa and Variante Alta, but managed to improve to 2:10:513. I think I understand where I can continue to improve now.

    After driving Lotus Elise SC and Lotus 2-11 for a while, I find BMW 1M's handling and brake are really terrible compared to Lotus cars. Driving 2-11 provides supreme fun.

    1.png
     
    Nao and forkmeupscotty like this.
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