Progressive system penalty

Don't make it too complicated. For public racing the speed penalty is good. In leagues admins can always apply appropriate penalty either during race or after. Just add drive through for jump start and speeding in pitlane and I'm happy.

 

Got used to it for the same reason, even got rid of that wonderfully immersing VisorX for sake of unobstructed view since I´ve got no TrackIR/OR .
Over time I really got used to it and I quite like it now, even if just for gauging where others cars are .

And for cutting speeds ?
Couldn´t we make a look-up table with legal corner-entry speeds to catch cutters through Kunos´ "track left function" and comparing legal corner entry speeds with illegal cutting speeds and be directly counter checked with the next occuring track-re-entry speed to have a sure-fire way of getting deliberate cutters ? IIRC PLP checks for nearly the same things ...

 

hmm sounds pretty complicated to implement either way and i cant see how it would be consistently reliable. my idea or ones based on Wallys solution seem pretty lightweight to implement to me.
my thing with the gates for chicanes would just require that to be added for each chicane (probably less than 5 in the game where an advantage can be gained), and another gate on the escape route exit for chicanes that have one. the rejoin speeds for those escape routes would need some brief experimenting to find appropriate speeds for each one. so for those, there would be no incentive to cut because of a drive thru or similar, and if you brake late, you dont get crippled.

for the chicanes/cut points without the exit road or just sections where going wide could give an advantage, the system using exit speed/time off track to determine an appropriate rejoin speed should be enough to remove any advantage gained from cutting, which would stop people doing it reducing the number of scenarios you described where there is a vast speed differential, and people who go wide from pushing too hard just rejoin at a slightly lower speed (obviously yellow flag would be nice warning for the people behind, and for such a scenario that would be easy to implement a little on screen pop up for people nearby.

places where there is obviously no advantage from going off track should definitely have 0 punishment regardless.

Its really not, cutters still get an advantage, and fair players get crippled for making small errors.

 

But you mentioned the monza chicane. If I forget to break in time I ignore the chicane and cut straight. Now if I wouldnt slow down but keep on throttle I would be faster than anyone doing the chicane properly - I need to receive a warning for that (at least!), hence the check for re-entry speed compared to leaving track speed.
But if I miss that chicane and actually slow down and get back on track slower, I wouldnt need to be punished.

Also in many cases I find fast re-entry more dangerous, especially for monza chicane, as tires are slippery and people get scared if someone comes flying at them with 200 kmh from off track. Its easy to see someone approaching track rather slowly because of all the smoke, now people can give him space to re-enter or he has to wait till a safe entry is possible. If you go of track you will loose positions, thats how it is, I dont like how some are speeding off track and come flying back on track. It seems more realistic for me for them to take a second to recover and get back on track safetely, even if it costs a lot of positions.

 

I think lots of people here are overestimating ho leagues are actually ran. Very very very few have live admins who are willing or even able to watch the whole race. Generally cutting in league races is usually reported after the event by other players.

 

Without anything to compare to there is 0.00% chance for the system to fairly do anything else than give out standard penalties because it has no way to know if time was gained or lost. Without anything to compare to there just is no way to make it work.

 

Not properly slowing down, but you can penalize people by overtaking during yellow flag...

 

How do you differentiate between people overtaking others during yellow, people overtaking spun cars or people overtaking other people who are slowing down massively to avoid someone else?

 

I think people need to be realistic in what we would like for penalties etc, and the time it will take to implement said penalties. Of course we would all (read; mostly all) like to have a fully working system with flags etc, but that's a lot of work, and @kunos need something to focus and prioritise on.

At present, the biggest issues with the penalty system is that it doesn't work fairly, or safely. The 3 apps I mentioned above mostly deal with the major issues of the current system, and would IMO solve most of the complaints (with a bit of tweaking of course). Once that's done, then the team could work to improve other area's etc.

Agreed, I would like a pit lane/jump start penalty, but gets the basics in first, add these after. There are already means to combat these two issues (auto-limiter/impossible to jump start) and whilst not totally popular, at least they 'work' without breaking the game. Improvements can then be had on these areas at a later date.

 

I guess that is a no-go, having Stefano's "easy to maintain" in mind.
If we want changes it got to be something that can be (easily) implemented for future tracks etc as well.

 

indeed, much less important issue than the main one being discussed here, as said by champion here, focus on the biggest issues and the other stuff can be considered at a later date. it looks like the plan is to get the new penalty system in with the v1.1 alongside the DLC launch, so solving the biggest issue as quickly and easily as possible is the goal

 

In this lovely game we're so lucky that the race stewards clear the tracks in no time, compared to maybe 2-3 laps in real life
I was into yellow flag earlier as well, but have reconsidered that it doesn't matter much.

 

I think the biggest issues for online racing are:
- wreckers. Getting rid of them is too difficult
- turn 1. Every t1 of every public race is a huge mess. It doesn't need to be that and it will reflect negatively on every single person who is thinking about getting ac but is told by his friend that online racing is a mess.
- stationary cars in the grid that don't move after the race has started
- blatant track cutting (monza t1, spa eau rouge)
- the slowdown penalty in its current form is in my humble opinion unpredictable, dangerous, unfair and also wrong because of so many ideological reasons (realism, usefulness, added danger). I don't know anybody who likes it. I'm sorry if that is an unpleasent thing to hear.
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- less important stuff
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- people passing others in yellow flag zones

If we want to improve the big things first then I think some of you are looking at completely wrong things.

Have ai do few laps around the track. Or create the whole database just using ai drivers. Subtract something like 5 seconds (use some multiplier like 0.96, not same time for every track) from the ai lap time and you are getting close. I don't see anything that have happened in last 60 years of ac development that would have invalidated that database (based on wrs).

 

And Monza T1 when you're punted off through no fault of your own? Then you need to have a collision detection zone...then you'll have *****les exploiting it...then we're back to square one where it's advantageous for *****les to ram you off track.
It needs to be simple otherwise it won't work.

 

So been reading from where Stefano started to post,
I have to agree I don't think Full replays are off topic regarding a penalty system, Granted it would mainly be league specific but this would be more helpful to leagues than having to have a Live Steward whos not racing, I cant see many regular leagues finding someone to do that, most leagues that ive ran/raced in the penalties are handed out after the race, it soon stops people from doing bad things,
along side a race report ive seen Stefano suggest would be perfect for league, they could look at the report then check to replay to see if it was a mistake or on purpose,

Of cause I have no solution to how you would do this But maybe a overhaul of the replay system is needed to be able to make it possible, if its possible.
Cheers

 

@dauntless said:
"Use world records+x time as base. If kunos don't have that data then they should start collecting it immediatelly (Cut).
--
What about mod tracks?
And that is to be done for every and each car as well (and future cars) - and modded cars are not a part of it yet.
It's far to complicated I guess..

 

indeed, ai is obviously not reliable on mod tracks, and given this would need to work for any car track combo... not feasible imo. what i have suggested would work fine for mod tracks too and just require an extra object added to chicanes and escape route exits, but im skeptical as to if this would be adopted, but i dont see any other good way of dealing with chicanes, as no algorithm for exit speed and time off track is going to be clever enough to deal with chicane cutting AND fairly handle people who went wide by accident, they need to be dealt with separately imo

people suggested copying the system from race07 or whatever, which im fine with as anything is better than current system, but they rely on giving warnings if im not mistaken, which Stefano is not happy with using, for reasons he stated which are understandable. how would they handle monza t1? let you cut it twice and then drive through on 3rd? if so i can see why stefano wouldnt want to use that

 

Even if it doesn't penalize you for overtaking, which i accept if it's difficult to do, yellow flags are still VERY IMPORTANT for league racing, i've crashed sometimes on public servers just because a surprise car appeared stopped in the middle of the track...

 

yes I (definately!) saw that reply MH, but you also read that "it might be a little adjusted" (something like that), and imo, for the leagues, for video footage and for the games reputation (and the Queen and what not ) I hope Stefano will consider the option of either
1. making 2 files eg CR1 + CR2 or
2. raise the limit with a warning of "this will lower the replay quality" or
3. ability to raise the limit to eg. 750 mb, which should be enough for almost any league (afaIko)
And I never wrote this :X