Question about understeer

After writing this post I realize it's quite long, so my apologies. I just want to be more specific so as to get the exact tip I need.

Hi I've got a little bit confused while reading through drivingfast.net and trying out those ideas in AC. I've been playing almost only with BMW 1M and only on Imola since I got the game (I saw someone suggest beginners practice on this track). After about 20 hours' practice I've improved from 2:30 to 2:14 and kinda hit a wall, so I wish I could get some advice here.

I found my entry speed at Torsa corner not consistent at all. Sometimes I can use a pretty decent line through that corner at about 56 mph, but other times even I slowed down to about 40 mph I still run wide and even hit the wall. The same thing happens at corner Variante Tamburello and Variante Villeneuve. I can enter Variante Villeneuve with no problem at all at about 76 mph or even 81 mph, but after the long straight before Variante Tamburello it seems that I will have to slow down to 61 mph or so. If I enter that corner over 70 mph, I will go straight into the sands. Same story can be told at other corners, so I think I lose quite a few seconds because of my cornering. So here are my questions:

What I do before entering a corner is: I hit the brake and slow down, shift down to 2nd or 3rd gear, turn the wheel and apply a little bit throttle, try to hit the apex and make it through the turn. Will this shift the weight of the car too much to the back and cause the car to have less traction on the front tires and understeer? Is this what causes my car running wide?

Drivingfast.net says the possible reasons for understeering are 1. accelerating into bend 2. braking into a corner, etc. Are reason 1 and 2 conflict with each other? If one brakes into a corner, doesn't that increase the traction in the front and reduces the understeer? What is the actually right way to go through a corner?

Thanks.

 

It isn't just about the weight shift...you need to consider the total forces on the tire.

Think of it as an equation: forces on tire (turning, braking, accelerating + weight) = 100 grip%. A tire can only go 100% at any one time with one input or a combination of several inputs. By this I mean you can accelerate in a straight line at 100% of the tire's grip (depending on horsepower and tire model) but once you start turning or braking you need to start combining cornering force with acceleration or braking force. If you go over 100% you lose grip and start to understeer or oversteer depending on the tire in question.

So when you turn into a corner, total forces need to be at or less than 100% to prevent sliding. Turning concerns the front wheels so you automatically are taking a chunk of your 100% and giving it to turning... the amount depends on how sharp the turn is. This means you must reduce your braking force or your throttle commensurately to not overwhelm the front tires. Now, if you are braking into the corner then there is extra weight on the fronts that theoretically provides more grip but also adds the majority of braking force onto those front tires (depending on brake bias, weight distribution etc).

So braking hard when turning can overwhelm the fronts. But accelerating when turning can also cause understeer because the fronts are turning, you are applying power to go forward and the tires get overwhelmed.

Make sense?

 

Pretty much what Traind said. I also find the 1m the biggest understeering pig off all the cars in the game.

You go 3 km/h faster at corner entry, epic understeer. You try to trail brake to the apex, again ridiculous understeer.

It's the only car in the game that i hate to drive like nothing else. No matter how i drive it it's always understeer. Like the front dampers are shot or something. Complete and utter unwillingness to rotate apart from power sliding.

Have a go with the E30 M3, it's a benchmark of how a properly balanced FR car should be, and a complete joy to throw around and learn with.

 

The simplest answer is.....if you can't get the car to turn into a corner without understeering badly (or sliding off into the gravel), then you are trying to take the corner at too high a speed. The general rule is "slow in, fast out". If you slow down properly for a corner, then you can accelerate earlier, which results in greater speed along the entire length of the next high speed section of track.

 

Replay?

in the last one you posted the car was understeering because you were turning in way, way, waaaaay too late. You had to put loads of lock to make the car turn because when you turned the turn was already behind. That kind of understeering isn´t the kind of understeering someone talks in an article. Its more subtle.

Based on the last replay the simple solution would be to brake earlier, turn in earlier and with much less input on the wheel than you were using previously and get on the throttle earlier.

 

There are opinions and then there are opinions. I would not call the e30 m3 "a properly balanced fr car". The road going z4 might be that but the e30 not at all imho.

 

I like ACs BMW 1M so much I've considered buying one

It's a road car, it likes to be pitched into the corners a bit, you need to get it rotating. I really don't get the under steer comments at all.

 

It's a damn good car though, mostly because it's light and it was made in a time were cars were purer and less constrained, i just overemphasized with the E30, it being so different in character to the 1M, i aknowledge it's not what you call, friendly. It's just that the 1M is completely the opposite, too safe.

The Z4 is a pretty good car as well, considering it's weight and and role as mostly a luxurious roadster in my opinion it still handles better than the 1M. Balanced and pretty straightforward to drive and enjoy, with just the right amount of understeer where needed.

 

I wanted to post a new replay but they are like 20 boring and mostly rubbish practice laps, and I haven't figured out how to edit the replay...

I find out that I turn in too late myself after my last post, especially watching other replays and videos! Thanks for the advice last time and this time. I actually have already tried turned in much earlier than before, but I think I will try to do it even earlier to see if it solves my problem because I didn't know my turn in point was that way way too late...

 

Slow in, fast out is a good starting point. You can build the speed slowly up.

 

The finer details only start to matter when you are within one or two seconds of world record times. Anything before that is all about corner exits and using all the road for corner entry and exits and hitting the apexes.

 

Sorry to trouble you by quoting you again. I figured out how to post only part of my replay (forum said the whole file was too large). Here attached is my latest replay recorded a couple of days ago. I appreciate your help if you could take a look at it. Thanks!

 

You are braking too late for almost every corner, you are not respecting racing lane ... you are trying too hard.

In one other topic I gave one advice but I don`t think that he really understand how much good advice was that. Heck, that is the first advice from every racing instructor ( I`m not that good - just copycat) - don`t look any part of corner that you are passing, point your sight where you want to go. Don`t apply the throttle before you are sure that you wouldn`t need to lift off and speed comes from acceleration so brake early enough (not too early - find braking points) to have nice and clean corner entry. Being a demon braker means something only if you race someone ...

Few casual laps in attach ...

 

A decent setup would help.

 

Did you saw his laps?

 

Did he post a vid? Sorry, I don't know what a reference time is for the combo he mentioned.

I do know that most of the cars default setups understeer too much for my liking.

 

I am nowhere close to the pace of the fast guys but here are a couple of laps that are a few seconds faster than what you are running. Maybe this can help you.

 

Thanks for the replay. After watching you going through every corner and remembering the speed, brake point, and turn in point you use, I've tried to mimic your driving and improved to about 2:13. However I can't quite understand why I'm quicker this time. Could you check the attached replay and point out the difference that's make me faster? That would help a lot and I will try to do better.

Yes I agree that I've been trying too hard all the time... I don't know why but I just want to beat my best time for some reason.

Also you tips sound like what James May got in one Top Gear episode! I'm always confused about "Don`t apply the throttle before you are sure that you wouldn`t need to lift off". Does that mean I should "coast in gear" when going through corners?

I attached my replay above and I attached a new replay here in this post.

Thanks for the video! After watching it I realized that I used a much earlier brake and turn in point before Torsa corner. That's something I overlooked. I'll try that line next time. BTW could you tell me what is the fourth color bar on the paddle app? The first is the clutch, second brake, thrid throttle, what's the fourth one? My fourth color bar is always gray, but I see in your video it turns red sometimes. What does it mean?

Thank you!

Thanks for the explanation. I'll do what you said first before going into the "finer realm".

I love driving road cars in game a lot more than open-wheelers for some reason... I have a Celica in real life and my girlfriend just bought a MX-5. I just couldn't wait to see these two in the game!

I just realized that my corner entry speed indeed is a lot faster than other people. I think yes I should slow down.

 

The grey bar on the pedal app is the FFB meter. When it is red it means that the FFB is clipping. I should probably turn my FFB down another 10% or so since it was red more than it should be.

 

was just typing that up Micheal that yir ffb was in the red. You do use a short travel on the clutch I (me only) like it to at least hit 70% before I change up or down. To the OP set you're tyre pressure up a few points and camber that should help