Project CARS 2

Well he does a comparison video of pcars 2 to real life & then he does a comparison to real life with AC & mention pcars a bit in that video. Why should i not post it in a thread about pcars 2 in the AC forum? I posted it the pcars forum as well, if that puts you at ease.

 

Because after people explaining to you the same things several times you still come back with the same things! It becomes annoying after a while you know?

But this time around like many others, you did not come to this forums to ask questions, rather to state that AC has limited physics and AC guys are insecure.

That's what you don't seem to understand. It's not that AC does work better for me than for you. It's that I have a different expectation of how a sim should work than you do. And because of this, you can keep trying everything, but unless you change your expectations (which I hope not, as being different makes this world wonderful), nothing can change.

Can you please point out in any of my posts that suggests that I take offence on anything??? Please, I beg you!

The only thing I could take offence when I'm called things like 'insecure' in these forums. But I'm way past that point.

You make another generalization here. I see lots of new peoples with different noob questions and most of them are politely helped out. Except those that start with things like AC is crap.

 

So people who haven't driven the real car can't have an opinion because they have no way to compare, and people who drive the real car professionally can't have an opinion because it's just too different?

 

I have zero RL track experience; only some Auto-Cross and decades worth of driving many cars / trucks / motorcycles / ATV's, etc. under various conditions, sometimes at the limit or beyond , so yes, when it comes to driving cars on the limit at high speeds - you have a very valid point but, then again - I'm not stuck on absolute realism in Simulation. It would be great to know that what we play offers it but, I'm absolutely fine with being immersed while accepting certain compromises in order to have great Sim experiences. Even PC2 can do that for me but, not quite in the same ways as the others and I have to dig deeper in the game to find them. Playing AC / AMS / rF2 have established how I define an immersive Racing-Sim; it is the standard by which all others will be judged, fair or not. Until something comes along that can prove them inferior, I'll be sticking with them. My "Sim Spidy-Senses" tell me that's not likely to happen any time soon.

As for "Seat-of-the-pants" factors, I feel opposite to you; I find what the FFB offers to be an essential ingredient to achieving great immersion in my play sessions. Reality offers so much more information when driving on the edge than Sim's do and in order to come close to reaching such immersion, I'd argue that we still have a long way to go in terms of feedback for Simulation. There is zero "Cheating" when it comes to immersion IMO; it's only a factor when competing against other players online and even then, the aliens don't need FFB - they may have natural talent. Is that cheating?

Some say having tire noise at unrealistic levels is also a way of cheating; I think that's total BS but fortunately, we can usually adjust the audio levels to our preferences.

 

Seat of the pants are G forces and vibrations. Those aren't felt in the wheel, so no matter how good the FF is on a wheel it can only give limited feedback. What I don't like in FF wheel is it's trying to countersteer for you. It gives some feedback that's valid, but I don't agree with all of it. I prefer to do all the steering myself.

Bottom line is if it feels good to you and you're having fun. It can't be wrong. I think it's a losing battle to make a sim feel exactly like real life.

 

Everybody has an opinion. I never said they couldn't. Who's to say who's right when it comes to feel?

We could both drive the same real race car on the track and have a different opinion of how it feels. Same goes for sims.

 

So you're saying that AC, rF2 and PC2 is a light, medium and heavy FFB. Pick the one you like?

I like it! That makes the most sense and there is nothing wrong or bad about that.

If I try to imagine driving a car without any inertia maybe it would feel just like AC?

 

JFC

 

True, but that was not the point. According to you we both couldn't drive (race) a car in real life and then assess how well a given sim simulates it. People who earn their money with racing seem to be even less capable of doing that. Remember:

 

First try to uninstall Bitdefender from your car

 

If a pro driver has no sim experience He may not be the best judge. Also, I didn't say he couldn't be a good judge. I said he may not be the best judge. Again, that would depend on the driver. You'd also be getting his opinion. What if another pro driver had a different opinion?

There's nothing scientific about feel. How about this? I think the Lotus 49 in iRacing, AC, and PC all have too much grip. The community modded GPL Lotus feels better than all of them. Anybody here agree with me? I doubt it.

 

Do you even know what inertia is lol, lets see say your going 200kmh and dont brake then try to turn hard either way. What will happen? will the car understeer? and why will it do this. If you brake too hard again and do the same thing as all crappy drivers tend to do then again you will get understeer because the car wants to continue its mass on the current trajectory.

AC handles car balance and weight better then other sims to me and being able to set the car for corners by understanding how to use the weight to your advantage is the key to getting close to the limits just like in a real car. Some corners may be flat or very close to but no lift may increase understeer and so run it wide losing exit speed, a tiny lift will move some more weight forward allowing a better turn in and so better exit speed then some muppet that thinks flatout is always fastest.

Then go the other way and some cars lifting in the wrong part of a corner will move more weight forward so take some off the rear and you will lose the rear, same effect as a real car. You can also do a quick flick of the wheel to loosen the car up a little on entry that doesnt really like to turn in, if you can understand the inputs needed to control the cars balance you will do well in AC as you will in a real car. One of the main things people complain with in AC is understeer caused mostly by poor driving technique, this understeer would not exist if there was no inertia as a car would simply be on rails and go wherever the front wheels are pointing.

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PC2 also works in much the same way except the closer to the limit the less idea I have of what the car will do, is it due to odd physics code or FFB I need to basically code myself.

Normally when I jump in a real car the first thing I do is spend 4 hours learning how to rive it on cold tyres and also learning how to set its FFB and search for mod solutions as the manufacturer had no idea how to do this. In PC2 it can snow at 30c so basic laws of physics are an issue for the devs ther lol, real cars Ive never had issues controlling as I approach or even go beyond the limits. To me any game or sim that doesn't react to inputs as a real car would feels odd and will likely turn me off, AC in this aspect has some that come close but none are better IMHO. Any game or sim there are compromises due to less feel in a basic home setup but in the end if the same inputs on pedals and wheel give very similar results to the same inputs in a real car its doing a fine job.

 

Oh boy, next the naysayers will suggest Jan's opinion on AC is invalid because the track and air temps weren't the same when he last drove his real life AMG GT3 car at Nurburgring, BWAAAAAAAAAHAHA. The tires are a different brand and he was wearing heavy gloves and a firesuit and a helmet , all of which would prevent him from accurately comparing the real car to the version in Assetto Corsa, since sim racers dont wear helmets and firesuits. BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHA

He is a real driver, comparing the sim car to his real life car. He clearly has enough sim expereince that he can pilot the car around the track at speed with no issues. He doesn't need a ton of seat time to access properly handling. If he tries iRacing I bet he will have about as high a regard for it as he does pCars 2. iR has its merits although tire modeling and slip angles ain't none of them, IMHO.

Same people didn't cry foul when SMS trotted out real life driver after driver to promote pCars 2, some of which who were the same drivers that said pCars 1 was the bees knees, then turned around and said it wasn't all that great but pCars 2 is the holy grail. BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA !

Feel is certainly subjective, no question about that. Although I have zero faith in a community mod of car that hardly anyone in the community has ever driven and will never drive in real life, especially when its being powered by a 20 year old physics engine. Luddite sim racers unite !! HAHHA OMG! Where is the commnity getting this data to improve the Lotus 49 in GPL ??

The word better is the opitomy of what subjective is all about. Why is the GPL mod version better ? What characteristics make it better? Without details it is all meaningless.

 

^ This is why everyone keeps arguing.

But why should he change his expectations? Why can't you change yours? Of course no one can.

 

I mean your body doesn't have inertia because you are not physically moving. I wasn't putting down AC.

 

But that's what a real car does, isn't it?
I often let self-aligning torque do the work after cornering (because I'm lazy and I don't want to turn the steering wheel when it does that by itself.) Note: I've only driven FWD cars. The FWD cars in AC do exactly the same things as my car, i.e. showing the same behaviour during/after certain inputs (steering, throttle, brake). I'm not talking FFB here. I'm talking about physics. And that's what I love about AC and I think that's the reason why Jan Seyffarth enjoyed his drive in AC so much. The AMG GT3 behaves like its real counterpart - again, I'm not talking FFB, it's about things like over- and understeer at the same places like IRL when giving similar inputs. (I'm sorry that my english is not better to describe it more thoroughly.)

Maybe I misunderstood your post, so I'm sorry for disturbing the ongoing discussion here. And if so please let me/us know what you mean by your statements highlighted above.

 

--- MODERATOR EDIT ---

Posting tragic road incidents is NOT by the forum rules.
Also some guys are really pushing their luck in this thread, posting your opinion is ok, going repeatedly over it again and again is spamming.

---- MODERATOR EDIT ---

 

I have no idea what anybody is talking about or trying to say anymore. Today i bought a bike, i need to get myself fit again.

 

I guess it was a bit excessive as a demonstration.

I'll use ESC "Electronic Stability Control" feature as an example instead. Without ESC, at 200km/h, if you turn hard the steering, the car doesn't understeer. It actually oversteer & plow straight. SUV, will simply roll over.

New car in North America has ESC mandatory. You can't turn it off on many cars sold currently. ESC apply brake & the car will understeer if the wheel it turned hard at high speed.

 

How do you manage to post things every day that are more incorrect and unintelligent than the day before? Sorry for the off topic, but damn. (oversteer and plow straight are exact opposites, btw)