Project CARS 2

..Standard Saturday in the AC forums....

 

I never defended it but can relate to the second part of your sentence.
If only I would have bought on PS4, at least I could try to sell it.

 

Why did you "forget" in your translation, that he said he didn't change anything to the setup and that changing the setup could improve it?
I wonder why you missed that in your "100% neutral and totally unbiased" translation.

We are reaching fanboyism-levels that shouldn't even be possible.

 

Thanks After Midnight and Oliver for your translations/summaries.

After trying the AMG at Nurburgring GP in both sims with default setups I can perhaps see where he is coming from. In AC the AMG understeers most of the time but when it does oversteer it usually catches me out and I lose it. The PC2 AMG is more neutral and when it does oversteer its much easier to catch.

However there are cars in PC2 which have very difficult to catch snap oversteer. I always felt that was not an indication of realism but perhaps I am wrong. I would be wary of drawing blanket conclusions from comparing just one car using default setups.

 

And its a pleasure for me to help you out if the "reaching fanboyism-levels" makes you blind and unable to read:
Quote myself:
"Maybe its related to missing settings car and FFB wise."

Greets After_Midnight

 

I've come to the conclusion that those in here defending pCars2, secretly hate it as well. Why else would they spend so much time wearing the cape and defending pCars 2 in the Assetto Corsa forum instead of getting more seat time and enjoying the phyzics, FFB and eye candy.

 

OK, sorry, my bad, I missed that.
But why are you accusing me of giving a biased summary. What is wrong with my summary?

 

In my opinion its the choice of words.
E.g. Jan's statement: "Its noticeable PC2 is not a real simulation." it the contrary of a vague comment. Also your explantation about the statement: "Its to easy to drive." is not translation related. Its related to your personal opinion why Jan have to come to this conclusion. Especially as he mentioned he tested the games/sims "out of the box" and "first look".
I hope this makes any sense for you.

Greets After_Midnight

 

Something I think makes some cars hard to catch in PC2 is the vague FFB; it's plenty lively IMO, it just doesn't convey the edge of adhesion as effectively. It's better in some cars than in others but, still well short of AC / AMS / rF2 IMO. It seems there are still some limitations within the physics / Tire-model that constrain the FFB. In the end, it's part of what makes PC2 feel quite "Gamey" and that's just fine for some people.

 

I believe you 100% and would really like to take your sim out for a drive but here in my house AC is the sim with limited physics.

I noticed the race car driver in the video was using some aids. Maybe I'll try that?

I think it's the over reaction from you guys that keeps this thread going. I still find it interesting that an equally physics quality sim like rF2 has stopped talking about PC2 over a month ago and didn't get so insecure about a new sim like AC guys do, which only leaves me having less faith in AC over all. I'm sure if rF2 guys were running down PC2 they would still be whining about it as well.

I'm going to download AC once more and hopefully get a clean default startup after all the messing around I did with it last winter fighting with antivirus.

 

I think there are really two different contexts at work within these discussions; one related to Pro-driver feedback of Simulations compared to reality / the other comparing one Simulation to another. Clearly, this creates very vague and questionable scenarios positioned on quite a slippery slope. The lack of any established standard / scientific method / criteria for comparison pretty much disqualifies or - at least, makes such reviews value questionable at best.

Simulation will never equal reality - period. I have - several times, raised the point of Pro-drivers RL experience and Sim-experience as being two very different things and while it's great to have our feelings about our preferred Sim being the most realistic or relevant validated, such reviews really may not deserve as much weight as they receive and certainly not in both contexts as if they are one in the same.

Ideally, any gap between the two (RL vs Simulation) would be quite small, but, it's clearly not the case. Add to that the differences in hardware and other factors among the various Pro-drivers, not to mention the fact that some of them have never even played competing titles within the same genre; add to that, differing opinions in general on practical value as training / learning tools vs simply being a game . . . , you see where this is going - right? Oval-racing; 'round and 'round in circles, only really useful for entertainment purposes (jk).

The most vocal Pro-driver stumping for SMS has to be Ben Collins. He speaks about PC2 relative to reality sometimes but, dismisses all other Sim's as being irrelevant by saying they are rubbish. He also admits to being quite bad at playing Racing Games in general. Does no one else see the irony in such statements? Certainly, any experienced Pro-driver has vastly more to offer in Sim vs Real Life comparisons than the average player but, it's not like there is any standard established for comparing Racing-Sim's either and that is where Pro-driver opinions are always going to be swayed, biased or otherwise, not completely relevant within the context of comparing one Sim to another.

What I'd like to see one day, is a panel comprised of pre-qualified but, unbiased Pro Race-drivers with comparable RL & Simulation experience spending several days locked in a room with identical race-rig's using identical hardware / fixed settings / fixed setups. Then (assuming they don't kill one another as Sim-fanatics might do when locked up together in a confined space), follow up with a press conference to give the results / final conclusions on which Sim they find the most realistic / fun / useful as a practical training & practice tool. Then MAYBE, one title could finally be crowned "King of Simulation".

. . . I know, never gonna happen but, please don't crush my dream dude. . . .

 

I have a friend who teaches new pilots in real planes but he can't fly the sim very good.

 

I'm not sure a real pro driver is the best judge of a sim. Real life racing and sim racing are too different.

 

Limited how? As I have said many times, I consider AC / AMS / rF2 to all provide a certain level of clarity regarding grip-loss and it's role in allowing us to balance the car on the edge of control. IMO, PC2 simply cannot match that level of conveying such information - for whatever reason.

There are many possible reasons why someone else may feel completely different than I do about a title and not be considered wrong. For example, just last night I made some suggestions to a fellow OSW-wheel user regarding his experience that rF2 FFB was absolutely broken and completely different using the OSW based on what he recalled from using his previous wheel. I recommended he start with a fresh profile and suggested a few tweaks and he found those things completely changed his experience in rF2. The thing that made it successful was that we shared the same hardware and I knew the results I get did not sync with his description, so something was clearly wrong.

That's only one example and I could point you to many, many more related to OSW-use with other titles among the various forums I frequent but, over time and with a lot of tweaking, I've reached a point where these three titles are close to delivering similar results using my hardware and I can jump into any one of them and have a great time. I've been playing PC2 a lot since it's release and it's just not at the same level but, that doesn't mean I don't think it has value. It just doesn't deliver the same kind of satisfaction I get from being right on the edge of control at every turn.

I recommend digging deeper and checking with AC-players who use your same hardware to get their feedback and settings. It sure sounds like there is a piece missing in your FFB puzzle.

 

Thanks for that. Will do.

In the end its all a lot of fun. I really enjoy all the sims and don't regret buying any of them.

 

Dean.......Maybe the real car doesn't feel like it's on the edge in every turn. Without driving the real car how do you know exactly how it should feel? If you have driven the real car I bow to your experience.
I know i've tried some of the vintage cars on track days in my youth and what I feel in sims is quite different. I'm not saying the sims are wrong. It could come down to not having any seat of the pants feel in a sim. A FF wheel doesn't make up for that. Frankly, I hate FF effects in sims. I consider it an aid. It helps too much.

 

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't see any SMS marketer posts in there?

Oh yeah, we're all very insecure, after all PC2 is the AC killer, isn't it?

Seriously, if you didn't figured out by this time how to enjoy AC, it will be a waste of time. I don't really understand why you try to make all sims on the market met your expectations, people are different and they have different expectations of what a SIM is and how it should work, most of us here are pleased how AC works, and most of us are not on other games forums to say how their sim has limited physics or ffb or whatsoever.

 

I concur ! I have never once ventured into the pCars forums to tout how much better AC is. I discovered pCars over a year ago after 5 years away from sim racing. Prior to that the last sim I'd driven was LFS, in comparison pCars seemed pretty good, then a month later a friend suggested I try Assetto Corsa, I was immediately taken by Assetto Corsa's FFB , tire model and over all handling, it felt so much closer to reality than anything I'd previous driven, going all the way back to GPL. AC sealed it for me and I never looked back to pCars and more importantly I never felt the need to jump into a pCars forum and debate how much better AC is.

 

I ask questions in all sim forums. Isn't that what forums are for? AC is the only one that gets so worked up.

Why?

So mine doesn't work as good as yours. Why do you take offence to that? I paid for it and am trying to make it work as good as you guys say it does. Why is that a problem for you? I really hope AC is way better then PC2. I want to drive that because PC2 drives really good and I always want better.

I tell people in other forums to get AC along with all the other sims. The software is the cheapest part. Why wouldn't you want them all after spending thousands on hardware?

AC is the only sim that makes fun of new guys and chase them away.

Why??

 

I want that!