Generic Is the Porsche 908 LH underpowered?

PC of course but point taken. Hopefully the 9o8LH will be more enjoyable on console once you get adjustable gears

 

i didnt answered right away as soon i saw your post,so i forgot about the laps on riverside and thomson, a very "duh!" moment from me yeah,sure hope so too!

 

On PC all with default setups so should be the same at PS4.
Btw. I also tried Jaguar XJ13 mod - very good addition, yet nervous on the brakes.

 

Great then!i've driven and driven the 908 and i cant do nearly the same laptimes as the GT40,too bad the AI is not capable to do it aswell.the XJ13 was amazing,wish we had it for PS4!the lotus 40 would probably be awsome too

 

Gentlemen, I did some stints hotlapping all 3 cars in default setup around Vallelunga Classic. Lovely stuff, I'm grateful for this thread otherwise I wouldn't have done that test.



I had to spend more time with the Porsche due to its understeery, super stable default setup. That's a bit unfair for the other 2, especially the Ford. The GT40 is a little faster around this track IMO.
Ferrari beats them easily by more than 2s.

So that was on a handling track. But OP was concerned about straight line performance/top speed (of the 908). There were some sources quoted with speed figures, lap times and stuff that might prove his point. But if you look at AC's power/torque graphs it kind of fits in, no?

- Ferrari: most power (450) and best power to weight ratio; lots of aero drag according to Aris (Spider, not coupe!) --> Unbeatable around this track
- Ford: comparable power (430) to Ferrari but a lot heavier; more torque; less drag than Ferrari --> Can't play the slistream card around here; slower through the turns due to weight
- Porsche: Way down on power (350); way advanced Aerodynamics?!? Most likely best chassis/suspension?!? --> Can keep up with GT40 around here due to great traction and higher cornering speeds, possibly aided by downforce

But why would someone expect the Porsche with that little power to keep up with the GT40 on high speed tracks?

What surprised me is how the Ferrari does barely hit 300 kph while the Porsche can do close to 310 and the GT40 ~315. I didn't think the Aerodynamics were so dominant and "overwrite" the power figures that much. Porsche is 100 BHP down on the Ferrari but has it beat by some 10 kph.

Can some physics modder elaborate?

 

Reading through the thread and the sources linked, once more, I can only conclude that the Porsche has too little power. I read what Aris said in the other thread and won't argue - the numbers are all aligned with the manufacturer's experts.

But is it possible that the teams simply ran different engine setups during their races? If the Porsche had ~390 instead of 350 BHP, it would possibly beat the GT40 with higher top speed and match RL results, better.

Also, are there historic reports on the GT40 beating the 908 (not by DNF)? I'm asking because OP wants to show how 908 is too slow, therefore we only see one side of the coin. Maybe there was just a very strong variation in performance between all these historic race cars...

 

It obviously depends on the track. At bridgehampton the Porsche is slightly faster than Ferrari.

Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

 

Bit of a simple answer to a complicated question. The OP provided several sources indicating that the Porsche 908 had the edge even at LeMans and even in top speed, as in giving slipstream to a GT40.

Sure the Porsche will be faster in AC on the handling tracks. But on a speed track these RL reports can't be reproduced in AC - the Porsche gets smoked on the straights.

Hence my question: are these RL reports maybe based on tweaked engines? Are there other reports where the GT40 beat the 908 to the top speed?

 

Looking for information on the web it results that there were more versions of 908. The closed version was from 68 which is the one ee have in the game and effectively it was less powered than GT40 but lighter so more cimpetitive in technical trscks but less on high speed tracks. In fact in that year the GT40 won Le Mans meanwhile was defeated on some other tracks. In 69th Porsche realized an open version of the 908 with more performance as even lighter than the previous one.

 

In 1969 Porsche developed 2 open top 908’s. Very short wheelbase and tremendous handling. And in fact the bodies were plastic would you believe!
Porsche 908/2‘Flunder’ (this car was virtually unbeatable wherever it was raced. And in fact Steve McQueen nearly won the 1970 Sebring 24hrs alongside Peter Revson. Being pipped to the post by Mario Andretti in a Ferrari!
Porsche 908/2 ‘spyder’. Which basically dominated the European circuits such as Nurburgring. And the Targa Florio.
In 1970. A third version the 908/3 was produced to take place of the 917 at the more twisty circuits. Again such as the ring and Targa. They were tiny, and handled like a go kart with its incredibly short wheelbase!

I would love to see these cars introduced into the game. Especially the 908/3.

 

What thread?i must have missed it

As for your first question,the Porsche's 908 LH were all works Porsche,from the factory team.Of course all drivers set up their car to their liking,but i doubt there would be much difference between them.
As for the second one...Porsche introduced this 908 LH only at the 24h Le Mans in 1968,the races prior were ran with 906,907's and the 908 coupe. "LH is an acronym for "Long Tail" in german, which means that top speed shoud be the highlight of this 908 due to its aerodynamic performance.In '68, Le Mans was the last race of the calendar (september) due to national strikes in France.In the 69 season,the John Wyer Gt40 was outdated and only ran a few of races,so the truth is that the Gt40 and the 908 LH faced each other just a couple of times. In qualify,the Porsche was always ahead

Yes! those 908's gave Porsche the title that year!Mario Andretti famously said something like "no way i was going to loose a race against an actor" the more impressing stuff about that race is that Mcqueen, an amateur driver, ran the race with a broken leg!
Those 908's were unbelivable!that gulf 908 on targa florio is one of the best images i have on vintage stuff.i wish they were part of the porsche dlc, along with the 936!

 

On the matter of 330 P4 top speed vs 908 vs GT40, considering the Ferrari is open roof and just to have an estimate of the speed loss due to it, I compared the 718 Cayman S with the 718 Boxster S and the gap is 20 km/h, with the Boxster reaching 271 km/h while the Cayman stops at 291 km/h.
That is a significant difference due to aerodynamics alone, so the 330 P4 with closed roof could very well be on pair with the GT40 to speed or even overcome it and certainly not under the 908 top speed.

 

From my (MP on PC) experience the 908 and the GT40 are very close separated just by few tenths as hinted by Andy and can be raced without any BOP. It doesn't apply to the 330 that is around 2s faster on "regular" tracks.

http://managerdc3.rackservice.org:5..._porsche_908_lh&valid=1,2&date_from=&date_to=

Unless it's LeMans '67 (mod), here the GT40 is the fastest thanks to straights, it starts to gain the distance at ~250-270km/h. Top speed is around 320-322 without slipstream, didn't have another GT40 in front to use slipstream, pctm's top speed in his PB in the 908 was with slipstream, otherwise he was doing 310-312 IIRC, don't remember about the 330, I think no slipstream.

http://managerdc3.rackservice.org:5..._porsche_908_lh&valid=1,2&date_from=&date_to=

Don't know how close it is covering the RL differences, but as it is in AC the 908 and the GT40 are very close when it's about lap times, not seconds apart (at least on PC).

Physics bugs section of the forum so not sure if you can see it, but here's the link:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/gt40-vs-908lh-vs-330-p4-top-speeds.47535/

 

Hugo.
You really must read the ‘Brian Redman’ book. It is fascinating. Especially the Targa chapters!
Also. Continuing on from the 1970 Sebring race. That’s how they eventually came up with a script for the ‘Le mans’ movie. They put Andretti in the car to chase down McQueen in the 908. Likewise in the film. They
Put Delaney in the car to chase down Stahler in the Ferrari!

 

Well, you didn't read my post carefully mate! here you are:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/gt40-vs-908lh-vs-330-p4-top-speeds.47535/

 

That's what's bugging me,the 908 LH is supposed to be at least equal to the GT40 at Le Mans,but somehow it's not.oh well...

The 330 is the one with the open roof?damn it,i prefer the closed one.my hype for the Ferrari Pack dropped a few notches The ones that raced at Le Mans in '67 were closed roof,probably due to the fact you pointed out:aerodynamics for better speeds.thanks for sharing that detail,that at least explains the 330 part

 

I actually did,thing is that it seems i'm not allowed to view the page,an error message appears to me thats why i didnt know about it

 

Wow, strange thing ...but you know... that's why next time you should buy a PC... PC Master Race... bla bla bla...
here you are the quote of Aris's post:

 

I keep searching for that book,but here in Portugal its hard to find.Not a clue in portuguese ebay and similar sites.Im thinking of ordering it online,but im always afraid of paying for something and that thing never arrives or arrives in bad conditions.
Please dont talk about Steve Mcqueen's Le Mans and duels between the 917-512.i still get flashbacks from the Ferrari voting and how we lost the oportunity to recreate the most beautifull/exciting movie and motorsport era to have that...that...thing that won the voting instead

 

I'm actually considering that.I'm not really a pc guy,since i enjoy too much to sit on my couch with a huge-*** tv but pc version would allow me to have mods,which is,for me,the best thing about pc games.

Aris is very right about the "memories" and "bar discussions" (there's a video somewhere of Jackie Stewart recalling reaching 380km with the Gt40 mkII ),not to mention of course the part about slipstreams.that alone could explain why the 908 was faster during qualify (and numbers aren't exactly memories or bar discussions,right?):the cars were all together in the track,so it could be easy for the porsches to stick behind some cars in one lap an be faster.But there's a catch to this theory: only 14 cars finished the race.14 cars in a 13km track,which means that the 908 did lots of entire laps on the last hours without the slipstream of other cars.and still the 908 managed to battle the GT40 equally,despite the 908 having break issues!And that strategy of Ickx to use the porsche slipstream is not a fond memorie from older times,it was told by himself the exact same day.i had the cover of a newspaper of that race,and explained there what Ickx did.Would he do that if he knew is Gt40 was superior?
Which i had a time machine,to check all of this