Oh really? Open letter to the community, this time from a dev...?!

So, there are different possible solutions that in turn will have different consequences:

1.) Create another subforum
Consequence: More places to supervise, more to go wrong

2.) Cleanse the Chit Chat
Consequence: More censorship

3.) Cure the community from CUTS (create-useless-threads-syndrome)
Consequence: ?

 

also less to supervise per place

 

This is why I like ACRL (shameless plug). People discuss everything coming up to the next race. Getting competitive, but also remaining very friendly. It is kind of both competitive and friendly to share your practice laptimes to guys you share race track with, in contrast of being a little bb and hiding your feet. Of course there are answers to any questions asked too and I believe this is why we're running at fastest pace of all leagues at the moment I should say.

I did see few times requests for setups and car discussions on this forum. I did also see feature requests.

 

Personally I really like the history of cars. I'm not a very fast racer so I try to include in my threads talk about how the designers went about making them, design choices and how these affected the cars handling and performance. The great thing about AC is its able to realistically recreate these little details so I think it's fun seeing discussion about this kind of thing.

A sub forum might not be the solution but it might help. I've never really thought about the secrets of tracks so it would be cool to read about this from people who know about it... and are willing to share

 

I believe a section would be needed.

First off, we would need a place to compile the information in and find it easily.
Second, we wouldn't just be sharing setups and corner strategies.

Driving is an inherently complex subject, and all cars are different enough to warrant a different driving style.

The kind of driving you find on the touge or rally course in a roadcar or kit car is not the kind of driving you find on the circuit in an F1 car. They have nearly nothing in common and the theory is broken in both forms of driving. Even if the same laws of physics apply.

Could you guys imagine a thread on "Best oversteer driving and accident prevention discussion" for most efficient drift/gymkhana/touge/rally/autox driving, where the discussion would be about how to steer and modulate the pedals in an oversteer situation, either induced like in rally or not intended like in racecars? How it differs between FR, MR, RR cars, cars with aero, cars with a lot of power and a little power, a fast steering rack or a slow steering rack? In cars with an oversteer, neutral or understeer bias?

I could. Yet this never happens, and if someone does start talking about intricacies like that, they get called a heretic and know it all, theorist etc.

I know I would be very interested in such discussion, and I know the slower guys who are starting out would be too.

There's practically no actually usable information out there when it comes to driving in a high tolerance situation, be it very fast in a hotlap or in a league race with aliens in it.

Most people never learn to steer, brake or accelerate in more than one way, and I really think it puts the bar for the average driver very low: but it's not that much their fault.

 

I agree as far as sharing complete setups is concerned. However, it would be very useful for some setup "experts" to share the reasons why they make specific setup tweaks, particularly with the GT cars. Setups always have been (and maybe always will be) a complete mystery to me, and trying to look up the relevant terms on Google just makes me even more confused! If someone with experience could explain the reasons for each setup tweak (and what is likely to happen to the car) in layman's terms, then it could be a very useful addition to the forum. You know, a sort of "setup tweaks for dummies"

Withe respect to Aris' comments about "passion", it's interesting to note that I would associate this more with the road cars than racing cars. They have so much more character than the race cars (which by design are meant to be "high downforce track huggers"). I really enjoy solo practice sessions in the road cars, but it is not as easy to be passionate about the GT2 and GT3 cars in hotlapping mode. Full grid races are where the GT passion lies.

 

Maybe the developers could have some in game help for these hidden secrets, not of all us are real world racing aficionados and want to spend hours trawling through forums so they can play the game properly. After race debriefings, post race videos with commentary, tool tips for race setups, suggested setups, community integration with some of these aspects?

I wonder what the statistics are for people who actually change the car setups at all, if I remember correctly I think I heard it mentioned that less than 10% of AC players actually enter a multiplayer race, I bet its an even lower percentage that alter setups.

 

I think we need a dedicated board for car setups at least, and also maybe one for graphics mods but hey.

We do discuss all of this in our private friends circle, for example me & my friend sat down and watched a real life guide to the Tourist and replicated the lines & actually became faster. Most of our lines were on point except miss hit miss and the left hander before that.

 

In that sense there also needs to be a better understanding in the community for what setup can really do for you. There is a concept that setup = speed when the reality is that setup is about making the car work for you, which in itself brings speed. Working with setup is where the "game" is in this sim, and where comparatively a flight sim like FSX involves having to learn a lot, with AC (and other sims) players need to learn a lot to make setups work for them.

It's not just a matter of "let me show you", what works for one may not work for another, and thus there is an inherent onus on the player to want to learn "why" rather than to just be told. I know, for instance, that what works for Aris with regards to rear end alignment doesn't work very well for me due to the way I drive the car, I could look at overlayed telemetry traces and see exactly why, but the way we setup the rear end alignment has no solid effect on pace and neither is by definition faster.

There are many resources around the internet for understanding setup, but there can be advantage for all in making the forums into a place where people can talk about their findings and desires. In the past driving simulators often had "quick fix" setups, which provided what were essentially hacks around the physics system to instigate advantage on track. Modern sims like AC are much more refined that than, it is very hard to define what a "good" setup is, but it is possible to discuss what works for one another and why (and maybe even how).

However it can't work if there is a "what do you know?" flame going on.

There is a lot to learn with car setup, it is a game within a game. Setting up a road car teaches initial steps, moving up to basic racing cars and onward to the notable complexity of quick aero focussed racing cars is not a moment's work. But it can be fun.

 

I can understand Kevin not wanting more sub folders to police.

On the other hand if the dev's want us to talk about this stuff here and not at RD then imo it needs a proper folder and download section for easy access to setups. RD already does this stuff though, so you need to draw people away from there...

We've had long threads about driving the GTR, Quattro and GT86, they do tend to get lost in the wish list type threads though which receive more posts... I do quite enjoy the wish list threads though...

 

Aris, nice post. I totally agree with it.
The problem is that not all of us are so expert about mechanical stuff so it's hard to change setup in a proper way. And also most of us have passion of race but are not professional drivers.
So to complete your post i would suggest two things:

1. Would be nice to have a tutorial with a recorded lap for each trucks with your voice that explane how to drive correctly the trucks and secrets about breaking point, turns and tips. Would be so cool and helping to learn how to drive better. I love when professional drivers explain their lap on truck during the f1 weekend.

2. Would be nice to have a wizard setup. Like a virtual mechanics that change the car setup linked with some questions. A nice setup interface where you can choose some simply requests.
For exemple:
You need more speed?
The car is too unstable?
You have understering?
In base of the aswere the virtual mechanic change the setup in real time and show what is changed in a visual report. This would help to understand it.
I know that is not so easy!! Lol. But so cool!

Problem is that Not all of us know how to use the setup but almost all feel the car and understand what they need to improve the lap time. I see that professional drivers ask to mechanics what they need on cars but do not make the setup by themselves.
Well maybe I write stupid things!
AC is amzing anyway!

 

I would love to see a sub forum here for driving techniques, track secrets, setup tips, rig ergonomics etc. I think it would reflect the passion of both the devs and the users - also help new users to keep on sim racing.

 

Edit: i tried zandvoort on various elise, just 0.5 sec faster on first two laps on semislicks with lower pressure, then 1 second slower because of overheating, something goes wrong

Edit 2: i think this thread will be another features' wishlist

 

Aris, you said why in your OP. It's a "Driving Simulator" (apparently), so I just "drive". I don't race competitively on here, when I hotlap I do like 5 laps and that's it. I build base sets and don't bother doing more. Because I just "drive". I go by instinct and that's it, I don't care much for the track's "secrets", for me anyway I probably learn them subconsciously and assume it's the right way anyway.

As for the other stuff, go back to the "I don't race competitively". No racing ? No need to learn about what can unlock race-long or qualifying pace. As long as the car drives good, I'm alright. Track days don't need optimal setups.

I give a few tips here and there, but it's general fast driving related, no really specific at all... The specific stuff I'd tend to keep to myself anyway if ever we could race on here "properly". So there, that's my excuse

 

@Aristotelis, agree with your suggestions, and what you describe tends to take place on private forums where communities are better at communicating positively and more helpfully - mainly because there is less fear of being flamed for making an incorrect comment or suggestion.

I do think a setup sub forum is needed so racers can come here and discuss and get help for specific cars. Race Department has one which is active, and as there isn't one here is likely where the AC community goes for hints and tips.

Great post btw.

 

lol the same i thought some days ago....still no forumsections for all cars and tracks. So if you give the space free in the forums it will be used.

 

Thanks @Aristotelis for your need to share your passion for driving! I'm with Marty here, just create a section on the forum about it !!! And I mean:

• cars (sub-section for each car?)
• tracks (idem)

An additional section on car setup basics and racing basics could complete the thing. If i remember well you had already posted some tips on car setup. Done!

 

@Aristotelis You can't really request and demand wished behaviour*, you can design to encourage wished behaviour.

If the current forum doesn't really do what you want with the features it currently has, maybe it's time to analyse from a player's perspective how it should be to encourage the behaviour you want.

A huge cause of your problem is, in my opinion, the fact that the AC staff doesn't clearly communicate to the majority of the player base through a single channel. I think this causes a lot of uproar and requests; people don't want to spend an hour to read through a 40 page topic, so they just post about it including more rage because it's all so unclear and hard to find. Something of a ticket system and a "features in progress" list would be very welcome.

Heck, I visit this forum daily and even I have a very hard time keeping up what has come out of Stream #something and what has been posted on Facebook or Twitter.

*of course you can, but you know where that would be going