Driving Technique Discussion

ACC uses aerodynamic tables from manufacturers, so it would be really hard NOT to simulate it or even smaller details, it's all baked into the data.

Rake really depends on floor design, some floors generate a lot of downforce at high rake, some can generate downforce at negative rake, it's all subjective. Just because somebody calls it negative rake does not mean it's frontal air inlet area is higher than the rear outlet area - it will still work like a flat floor would at positive rake.

As for very high rake angles seen in F1, they can do it because of having enough room to create really strong vortices that can keep the air sealed under the floor and prevent it from stalling. In gt3 you are more limited in this so trying to go high rake will create leaks and stalls that instead of giving more downforce will move the center of pressure forward. Anyways just because gt3 car looks flat with zero rake it does not mean that it's not pumping huge amount of air out the back like a highly raked single seater, it's all in the design of the floor.

Not sure what "typical" effect of lowering the rear you mean as these aerodynamics are highly car specific and i'd call them anything but typical . Also are you taking into account that moving rear ride height changes the front splitter position, which can have as much of an impact on overall downforce as rake itself in this case.

 

typical effects or some predictable effects on cars i drive.like more downforce at rear,stability in direction changes etc
I don't know whole effects caused by lowering rear i deducted the above effects just by driving consistently on my preferred cars basically feeling.
Although i don't know on how front splitter changes with rear height,does it get little bit higher by decreasing rear ride height ?
i never felt any difference in my testing,i carried same speed with different rakes in many situations.
Currently i only use rear height to get downforce so that i can reduce the wing and it gives me expected results.

 

Ah yep, you don't really get more downforce when lowering the rear that's the thing. The center of aerodynamic pressure moves rearwards and the slight rise in splitter height reduces front downforce. The rear part of the diffuser may or may not give you a bit more downforce... but anyways the point is that the change in total downforce with rake will be small and can even go either way. While what you feel as a driver is mostly the aero balance moving forward/backward.

Putting it differently, splitter and rear diffuser are not really a front and rear downforce generating elements, it's better to think of them as one giant "floor" wing under the car. With rake being like wing angle but much much more sensitive and normally working close to stall condition, so in a state where you can't really add more angle to make more downforce anymore.
Now for every wing the net point of it's downforce moves forward/backward a bit with changing angle but since most "normal" wings are very short you never feel it affecting balance. But on a 4.4+ meter floor "wing" even a tiny change in angle will bring significant change to balance because of that. And that's what you feel when lowering the rear.

edit: I mean it's totally ok to lower rear to reduce the rear wing for Monza, but just remember that lowering the rear does not give you downforce, but rather it subtracts it from front first and then adds only some of it to the rear, reducing overall aerodynamic efficiency.

 

very good explanation, i knew some stuff and this info definitely adds more valuable knowledge.

 

I wish if kunos can add a downforce indicator,not the numbers i know that they are confidential.
Maybe if they can add an indicator to show if we are losing overall downforce with changes in rake.

 

Yeah maybe, thou even the "aero balance" ends up pretty misleading. With downforce arrow it could all get even more confusing. While in reality it's pretty simple set of interactions that's just hard to bend to your will.

What could end up happening: you reduce front height and add some rear wing to compensate "aero balance" so it stays fixed, the downforce arrow indicates increase. You drive a couple of laps find out it's terminally oversteering at high speeds, you reduce rear height to tame it, the arrow indicates loss of downforce, the car now drivers like it was at the start with aero balance at other value. Question: did the downforce increase or decrease? Answer: it can do both depending on situation and there is no clear way to judge it from arrows either. To work, it would at least have to show downforce numbers at some given speeds and that's confidential territory already.

 

If you really wanna have some numbers for downforce other than the aero balance you could use MoTec and with a little bit of math I'm pretty sure you could get there but I don't think it's worth the time if all you really want is to get more comfortable with the car.

 

Don't get me started on telemetry in ACC, it's a big step back from AC and older games. And one of the reasons why it's bad is because we are not supposed to get to downforce numbers, as they are confidential.

 

@James P any chance you have managed to have a look at his lap as mentioned above here? Was really looking forward to your breakdown...

 

Guys, I have a stupid question - I pass Zandvoort with a xbox controller in 1:36. I haven't played for a month. Now with wheel (TMX) I pass Zandvoort in 1:42. I think there is a problem with the braking, but the setting in the menu, namely the increase to 5 does not give an effect. I also have a problem with acceration - before TC 2-3 was a standard, now on AMG GT I'm even 6 - not enough. It's funny that I feel great in RF2 and RRE on Porsche CUP, which doesn't have TC and ABS.

How can I make the brake pedal more sensitive?

 

just use full motion allowed by your hardware i.e don't add any deadzone in settings etc
My guess is that you are not used to the wheel PLUS 1 month break is not helpful.
Get used to the wheel give it hard practice

 

Try yo set ABS TO 1 ir 0 and try it some laps and gradually set more high,... until you feel good ,you have to block tyres when you press brakes at full but not when only press a bit
Sry for my english

 

Hi,

First to make sure that you're using the correct line and braking points, you can check the "Lap guide" videos from "Unleashed Drivers" on Youtube.

Choose a car that is not too much difficult to drive and later to setup. For me the Porsche is not a good idea at the beginning. It is both difficult to drive and to setup. If you want to start with Monza, the Mercedes AMG is the fastest car and not difficult to drive.

Then you can take the default aggressive setups as a basis and adjust the tire pressures to your driving. 27.5 psi at the front and 27.3 at the rear. Adjust the camber too to have from 6° to 8° difference between the inner and outer of the tire. Then you can reduce the brake duct on the Aero tab for short races. For example you can often reduce the rear duct from 4 to 2, but then check again the tire pressures.

Doing only that will already help you to be at least 0.7s faster than if simply using the default aggressive setup.

Then there is no need to care more about car setup if you cannot be consistent in your driving.

As soon as you're consistent while pushing quite a bit then the rest will come from the car setup. Many drivers say that it's mainly about driving skills and if you're 1 second slower then that's not the setup, but if I work on the car setup, I can still be about 1s faster than the default aggressive setup with tire pressures adjusted to my driving.

 

A good tip I heard for beginners which gives 'food for thought' is that....

Tyres can only give a maximum of 100% grip. Its up to you how you want to use that 100%. You can have it for braking or turning or share it between the 2 (but never exceed 100).
You cant have 100% grip for braking and expect the car to use some more for turning as it will either not turn or not slow.

Sounds obvious, but people still brake as hard as they can and try to turn and wonder why it understeers.

** that 100% will change whether the tyres are cold, hot or warn of course, but still only a max of 100%.

 

Thanks for your guide in advance

One question about camber, is it a good idea to have different camber angle between the left and right tire?
I had the issue on Zandvoort that my tires on the left side always got too hot and the difference in temperature on the inner and outer side of the tire was around 10-12°.

 

Many people would say that we should avoid two different camber settings for the left and right tires. It is often used in Indycar and Nascar when racing on ovals, but here that's not the case.

I'm also trying to avoid it, but the are default aggressive setups in ACC which have different bumpstop rates for the left and right, so why not also different camber settings. I would try to use a stiffer antiroll bar. This will help to transfer less load on the outside tire and to avoid overheat. You can also try to soften by 1 click the bumpstop rate of the overheated tire as in some ACC default aggressive setups.

 

Question about braking in ACC. Love the sim so far and the physics are next level for me, but i'm conflicted on the braking. I find that i'm regularly mashing the brake pedal to 100% without any downside unless I turn down the ABS to 1 or 0.

Is it realistic for the drivers to use 100% braking in these cars? In the other sims, it seems like 60-80% is the max force you can get before you absolutely hammer the ABS.

 

Are you sure it isn't just the ABS doing it's job?

 

Whatever the game was, if ABS is spazzing out with only 60-80% of brake pressure something is seriously wrong with the car or the driver.

As for realism, is mashing the brake pedal to max possible on a real car? Yeah, even preferable at high speeds. Keeping brakes floored till apex too? It's possible, but not the fastest way so nobody does that. But simracers do! That's why they are slow!

 

Been a long time and i was silent, but i didn't surrender. A few of you guys might remember the other thread or me, but anyway i'm here to celebrate the new DLC and keep up with my story.

Since last time i haven't improved much in raw speed, but i managed to get a way better car feel thanks to the car we used in our latest championship, the porsche cup, that is a nasty bastard with no TC... well i have to say that my gap from polemans is a bit better (before was up to 3 seconds off aliens while now i'm dancing between 1.5 to 2.5 seconds, not too bad since i'm still totally clueless about tuning the car)...

But i managed to get better in my limited training time; in a way shorter time i'm now able to get better along any track and be able to make our 60minutes races from start to end with no major mistakes if any at all!

In the last race I was complimented by the race winner for my improvements he saw when he was to lap me (i'm not that slow, i was crashed out early in the race i can do 60 mins races without being lapped), he said that i need to nail a few corners to be actually quite better on the track we raced on.

As a sample of my improvements this is my Bathurst training:


After that i kept up and did other few laps on a similar pace. While it may seem a very bad time i'm pretty proud of it, 40 liters in tank for last lap (started with 60) stable setup as-is...

Lap starts at about 48seconds, i messed up while recording


I'm probably doing something very wrong since i keep hearing of people doing 2.02s >_> but hey, i'm in another league after all

That said if you see something totally wrong i would be happy to learn as on last thread on Hungaroring.

I'm not sure why i cam back and posted, probably to give hope to other bad (as in slow!) drivers, to thank all users that helped out (even if i'm still a slowpoke, i did learn a better way of training and got a tiny little bit of speed), and thanking @Minolin @Aristotelis and all the other guys @kunos for their great work on the game, and the great interactions with their user community.

"karsten"