PHYSICS ECU maps implementation

It seems very short-sighted not to include this and other information in the game. If there's one thing really lacking in the game it's explanations for settings, rules etc. A proper introductory tutorial would be incredibly useful to new players.

Really it's quite astonishing that an arcade game like Forza Horizon 4 has more detailed information in the setup pages, with detailed descriptions including what effect changes will have on the car, compared to a sim racer like Assetto Corsa. The argument could be made that sim racers could be expected to be more knowledgeable about this stuff so it doesn't warrant explaining - but this very thread and others clearly proves that isn't the case, especially when some settings like ECU maps vary between cars.

If the developers really can't find the time to add some text to the game then at the very least the game should list some helpful community resources to guide people in the right direction. @Aristotelis and others, the burden should not fall on the player to fill in the missing gaps. It's a very broad assumption to believe players are going to find the information they need on their own. Only a small handful of dedicated people will ever stumble across threads like this.

 

The info should absolutely be in the game, no argument there; it's bonkers that it isn't already included.
But I think you're overstating the case when you say that people won't stumble over this info. When I google "acc ecu map" this page is the very first result.

 

The lack of info for the ECU maps is definitely not the only thing that's missing for driver information but I like the idea that you're supposed to just learn it as you go along. I can't complain considering the AMG has 3 maps all with linear throttle curves.

 

This very much.

 

Has someone done testing on using the default ECU map in the wet vs using the appropriate wet ECU map? I'm asking because I'm not good enough to feel subtle differences.

 

@Aristotelis in our stream about alignment and electronic controls https://youtu.be/3Gn6VTkO7CA?t=9521 you explain why no ECU map explanations in setup screen.

I'm sorry but I disagree.
First of all: Having to bookmark a webpage or save a document and have phone or tablet or computer nearby to see basic information is precisely the reason I hate that the information is missing. I hate that I have to try to reach some device where I can start searching where the hell ECU maps were again. Not handy at all compared to just to jump in setups and see what given number means. You say that it's no use to have maps explained in setup screen if you can't see those while driving. Well to me this seems just UI problem. How about when ever you change ECU map while driving the message that is shown on HUD says the number and short explanation. Example: For Aston V8 if you change to map 2 you get message "ECU map: 2 Normal fuel consumption, aggressive throttle map".

Secondly: Not bothering to make translations because they take time and money. I get that it might not be the most interesting task to do but that is mostly one time job. If you guys need to change explanations all the time I think there is something wrong.

 

Wow, I had no idea that Aris had ever said this. Unless I missed it, nobody else has linked that stream in this thread, nor has Aris ever stated those reasons by posting in this thread.
I like your rebuttal of the first reason not to do it - having a quick HUD message to summarise the behaviour of you map you just selected seems pretty ideal (another option would be to just screenshot the setup screen!).
As for the second reason... jeez, I'm so bummed and disappointed that it's even a factor. It's like saying "hey, if you speak English, google for info on the maps and you'll easily find what you need; if you don't speak English, sorry, tough luck". (What's the point in adding the maps if you don't want players to use them? How can they use them if they don't know what they (are meant to) do?)

 

It would not be difficult to add the information to the game. Most of the descriptions have already been written by people like @Aristotelis himself! Why not just put it in the game, where it belongs? I'm sorry that not everyone has the dedication and time in the lives to go trawling through forum threads to find out what a setting does. It's hardly an unreasonable request that a user interface actually tells the user what it's for, it's a basic principle of UI design...

 

When I first purchased ACC, I asked for a refund, and in part THIS was exactly the reason.

I never liked Assetto Corsa (1), how it drives.
I felt at that time, that Project CARS did a much better job, handling, and steering was much more like GTR2 and Race07/GTR Evolution, that I played before.
So I played PCars mostly before ACC.

Since I never liked AC, I did not follow the news.
I learned about the game some time around September-October 2019.
It looked good, sounded good, and decided I give it a go.
Went to Steam, purchased it, tried it.

Porsche it should be, on my home track, the Hungaroring. - Was so happy, that the track is in a Sim (I play) finally.
But then the issues came.

The car was just undriveable! Tried to adjust the Control Settings, but they did not really tell you what they do, even after an hour, experimenting with the controls,
I found myself spinning in every 2nd corner. Since Steam offers you a 2 hour "trial", as otherwise they will not refund the game, I opted for a refund.

Did not touch the game for a Month. But I saw the potential in it, could I just handle the car...
The visuals, and the sounds were so amazing, finally a licensed GT Racing SIM, this could be it, this could be the game I was hoping for, for so many years...
But what can you do, its just undriveable. I spent my 2 hour trial already... Until I can drive it, I will for sure not purchase it.
But it must be driveable, others drive it...

So lets just say, I looked into "alternative" ways to get a "longer trial", and to have time to experiment with the settings...
After a day or two (obviously with breaks, I have a life, I work, etc..., so realistically it would be like 4-5 hours), I finally found the Control Settings, I liked.
It says Gain... Cool, but what does it do? Dinamic Dampening... Sounds good, but what does it do?
Steering Angle... Default of I think 900, way undriveable... Hmm my wheel has around 220 degrees to turn, I set it to 220, way undriveable...
It took me 2 days to find the proper wheel settings that I liked!
(I played games, that had a shorter campaign, then how long it took me to get the wheel settings right!)

Still could not drive the Porsche tough. But was fine with the Ferrari, and the Aston V12, so it must have been a Setup Issue.
I looked at the setup menu, and... Ok, i'll just have to drive another car. No matter how much a fan of Porsche I am, the menu does not tell you anything where to even start improving a setup.
The issues I had with the Porsche is/was turn in oversteer, and lift-off oversteer. I think the default setups still have this issue.
But as I was finally able to drive other cars, I decided to purchase the game again.

I think I have the game now for 3 or 4 months, played some 150+ hours, and it is in the last 2 weeks, that I figured out how to fix the Porsche finally, by watching Aris's videos on youtube.
Here the link for all those who found this, and would like to understand how setups work in the game: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aristotelis321

If I would not have spent additional hours with the "extended trial", to finally get the controls right, if I would not have come to these forums, would not have by chance found Aris's youtube channel linked in a post here...

But now: I could not be happier with the game!
(Apart from the new start system)

 

Just to think. Are there a lot of detailed information about rules, technics tips and another theory about football/soccer, ice hokey, rugby, baseball etc. in that kind of simulators? Or is it supposed that people who want to play in it already know all stuff about?

 

Just to think...
People in Ethiopia are actually living in very poor conditions, if they can live in so poor conditions, why do you need much better conditions?!
Just because something is "bad" somewhere else too, it does not mean, its OK.

 

Actually, those games have detailed instructions/lists of key combos for every single basic and advanced move/shot/throw etc. Most even come with tutorial modes that teach you how every single skill works (Madden for example).
Just because you know all the football rules doesn't mean you can make 100% use of Messi's or Ronaldo's skills in FIFA or PES without anyone telling you how they actually work/are triggered.
Same goes for ACC then (and other sims because they all severely lack good documentation).
Just because you know how to drive a GT3 car, you won't automatically know which ECU mode you should choose to save that extra 0.5L of fuel to extend your stint by one lap or even save one stop.

It's a simple rule really. The more complex your software is, the better your documentation has to be.

 

Oh, sorry then and thanks for clarification. When I played in FIFA/PES, NBA, NHL there were not any kind of instruction and even gamepad combo existed only in printed book with console disk but not for PC. Glad to know now it has all this stuff.
About better documentation: documentation for ACC is this forum. Such a complex one be placed in game is not a good idea. You can access to the game only on your gaming PC but forum on any kind of device which has net connection

 

I couldn’t disagree more, having information spread out through various threads is a horrible way to create a repository of information. It forces your users to search through posts for information rather then looking at a table of contents, and there is absolutely no structure to the information. If you want to keep it out of the game at the very least a wiki with all the information could be created as long as a direct link to that wiki was given in game. If someone loads up the game and doesn’t read the forums they are going to have no clue the information exists.

Sim racers are weird, they complain about other sims not having some artificial chassis flex like ACC or whatever said physics feature is the flavor of the month and totally glaze over fundamental issues like lack of documentation, tool tips, etc. As long as you guys keep looking past these details and telling the devs it’s okay your going to keep getting ****ty games, that are riddled with bugs and lack polish.

 

Couldn`t disagree more, physics, FFB and performance, are the most fundamental requirements of a sim, and must take presidence over a manual for those who don,t know how to search.
Plus, there is no attempt,... "to keep it out of the game".

 

iRacing has 100,000 subs, and has horrible physics, I bet you the majority of sim racers couldn’t objectively show or tell you what games have better physics over one another, so no physics and FBB aren’t the only criteria, it’s everything, physics, gameplay, ffb, documentation etc. I never said physics or ffb were not important.

Additionally the posters above were trying to keep a manual out of the game which is why I made that suggestion.

 

Care to explain why it is "not a good idea"?

Or where the "documentation" is? Because from all I can see there is none. No manual, not here in the forum, or in the game files as PDF.

I get it. No time, little budget, constant development. It's hard. But it's also what simulators (be it racing sims, flight sims - or really any game worth a damn) did properly back in the day. If it's too complex (or too resource-intensive like the translation issue here) to be explained right in the software and not self-explanatory then there's need for a proper documentation, which the few dev threads simply aren't. And no, that doesn't get around the problem with the translations but that also shouldn't be the customer's problem. Sim racing devs are lucky to have communities that are tolerant of missing features and helpful enough to newcomers that this hasn't been a bigger hindrance in the success of sim racing as it ought to be...

 

this guy gets its, agree with every point you made!

 

(IMO) Right after the dot in that quote: because it is not a good idea to have to run the game for reading detailed documentation. In one case (documentation is separated from game) you can open docs on the same PC when you are playing the game. But when documentation is inserted to the game you have to run the game to get it.

And some links about documentation-like for this forum:

Section:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?forums/acc-blog.87/

Quick guide. In addition threads have updatable start message as documentation (you don't have to search where info is) and are opened for answers and discussions (some interactivity in help)
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...ew-acc-blog-subforum-and-how-to-use-it.59015/

Examples.
How something modeled in the sim:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?forums/acc-blog.87/&prefix_id=39

Some rules of game:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?forums/acc-blog.87/&prefix_id=34

Some docs:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?forums/acc-blog.87/&prefix_id=40

I think you get my point
And yes I agree that live wiki would be great too (more structured and organized than forum). Ingame - IMO not good. PDF is static, and at the same time need to be opened separately from the game.

 

Why not both?
Have a basic explanation in the game, with a link to the forum for more info?

What I could imagine, is something like a mouseover info.

If you move the mouse over a setting (for example ECU Map, Anti Roll bar, etc), on the left, where there is now a static display it could contain basic info about that topic.
Like I do not know something like this.

This setting is generally used to...
If you raise it, you can expect the car to...
If you lover it, you can expect the car to...
Keep in mind, that ...