Your Lordship: Please give us an untouched pure physics ffb, not that consumer thing.

Sorry, can't say anything about that, since I don't own a Mige and most likely never will.

The specs can be found here:
http://vs-cnc.com.ua/images/Сервопривод/servo motors catalogue.pdf

Unfortunately, it doesn't specify there, but I think that's because they usually give values for DC operation, which is not what we're doing. Instead we have modulated signal, which you have to somehow convert to make it meaningful.
IIRC, the RMS is only an estimate here, since it's not a sine but a square signal. But it's how it's usually calculated.
"Real" torque values would have to be measured. To my knowledge, this was only done for the small Mige and the Lenze (not mine though, the 230V version) by Martin Ascher so far:
9A → 14.7 Nm
13A → 21.3 Nm
15A → 24.1 Nm
17A → 27. 9 Nm
19 A → 30.2 Nm
Yeah, he was using the small Mige above specs here. Also note that he was using the Argon drive which at the time was limited to 19 A. That's also why the Lenze is at around 19-20 Nm.

Source below. Sorry, it's in German, but I guess you understand the values:
https://forum.virtualracing.org/sho...ervo-Lenkrad?p=1980086&viewfull=1#post1980086
https://forum.virtualracing.org/sho...ervo-Lenkrad?p=1979918&viewfull=1#post1979918

 

My wrists, arms and hands are typically quite sore after a solid 45min session @ 40% gain on the Tomo small Mige option on say the McLaren MP4/4 or Ferrari 643. These direct drive motors are pretty incredible ...

 

Great thread, this part is particular

Could be wrong but my understanding is that Kunos do not use DD wheels at all for FFB tuning, at least my question to Devs on that was left unanswered.
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/question-to-devs-dd-wheels-support.41291/

And please don't take it wrong, me as I am sure everyone else here love AC FFB, it's just these last 20% that can really make it world class golden standard.

 

Why i always had the feeling that AC with all effects to zero, would give 100℅ pure signal?

Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

 

I tried to compare the video with AC. To me the behavior of the steering wheel in comparison with the DD (I own the BigMige) is pretty similar (not mentioned are the "negative" forces on the DD wheel based on the FFb). Ntl only the devs can give us the answer, btw we could collect some money and spend @Lord Kunos a DD wheel lol

 

That downshift @ 4:20 !!! OMG, he has no respect for the car
Also, downshift protection code obviously bugged.

 

I remember Stefano saying several times the AC FFB with the effects at 0% is the pure signal generated by the physics. Maybe it has some filtering too, I don't know.
The only parameter guessed is the FFB multiplier because they don't have the steering torque data from the real car, so I think, the torque differences between cars is adjusted by feeling with a consumer wheel.
If it is done with a logitech wheel the differences between cars will be minimal because the wheel can hardly generate the forces of the car with the most light steering wheel. So if you set the FFB at a powerful wheel to reproduce the torque of a non power steering car, the cars with power steering have a very heavy FFB. Of course you can set the FFB lower for those cars but you are just guessing how you think that car feels.

If they would be given with the steering torque data they could program an automatic mode for powerful enough wheels to reproduce the same forces than the real car. Iracing and rFactor 2 have this mode but I don't know how accurate it is because if you try, for example, the skip barber in both sims with the 1:1 mode, there is a lot of difference between them. I think rFactor 2 uses the data they are given from the real car telemetry and iracing uses the telemetry data they get from the virtual car with the simcommander software, so rF2 seems more trusty to me.

I have the main gain set at 40% and adjust each car FFB gain ingame as I think each car would feel in real life, between 60% for power steering cars (24% total gain) and 150% for older formula cars (60% total). It is not a very scientific method but it works well for me.

A thing I would like to be able to deactivate though, is the safety mechanism that deactivate the FFB when you hit a wall, I know it could be dangerous and stupid for a game but it could be useful for real life drivers to get used to put their hands off the wheel when they have an accident.

 

The devs have repeated over and over again that if the 3 effect sliders are set to 0, the FFB is the pure and unmodified output from the physics engine's steering rack data. You can take this or leave it.

In order to compensate for different types of wheels there is the option to implement a LUT turning your FFB response curve into anything you want, really. Furthermore, you can decide whether you want to skip FFB steps, have an enhanced understeer effect or play around with some gyro settings.
Information on all of this is available on these forums.

I think it's fair to ask for improvements or explanations for DD wheels. The problem I see with OP is that he claims to know how Kunos is tailoring the FFB to low-end to medium wheels. Conspiracy theories like those must be really frustrating for the devs.

 

The problem with DD wheels is that there are no fine defined products except for the AccuForce (which however uses its own FFB software anyway) and the Sim Steering (which only few people have and even fewer of these drive in AC).
The OSW on the other hand is a moving target. There are multiple drives, motherboards, a significant amount of low-level tunable settings and especially quite an amount of servos.

So sure, they could test and develop the FFB on the OSW (maybe they are even doing so already, don't know), but if so on which servo? And Argon-based or SimuCUBE? And yes, it does make a difference.
That's why I said that things might change once Fanatec releases their DD wheel, because then there is a widely available consumer DD wheel, a fixed product, which can be used as a reference.

Also I disagree about the FFB clipping. Yes, you can make it go away with a DD wheel if you just set the overall FFB strength to something like 40-50%.
But it shouldn't be a problem anyway. Not with anyway, be it a DD wheel or a normal gear- or belt-driven wheel.
It's rather a legacy thing that should go away better sooner than later.

 

I believe to have read on this forum that the cars are simulated without or before powersteering-assistance. That could explain why some cars feel too light or too heavy. Maybe they tune every car up or down to a certain point to get the most out of the mostly used wheels. I find it strange to and it feels wrong to adjust the gain for different cars myself. As others I choose a higher gain for racecars than for roadcars to get it closer to my imagination. All I would like is that the devs could adjust that so that the difference between cars are as in reality. But typing that I realise that if they set it right for an old formula car the values for, let's say, a modern Alfa Mito would be minimal and unfeelable through a normal wheel. Maybe they can generate a list of the numbers that they use as final adjustmentvalue and we can use this for each car separately.

 

These specs, I posted earlier, are correct:

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...fb-not-that-consumer-thing.41404/#post-816266

Yes, he used Argon and, and that´s much important, he used 11,5 mH setup instead of 8,8 according to Mige sheet specs. Pretty 30% difference. May be this is not represantative.

I do. German is my native language.

 

Dear Andrew, that points 100%. All we do here is imho meant constructively to push up AC uncatchable on the throne.

 

Good plan. First bucks from me.

 

That would be THE explanation and in the other way THE absolute nogo for a simulation. Who knows more about? Dev´s please?

 

Well yes, although you made a mistake regarding the big Mige as you listed the specs for the 130ST-M10015, while the model that Tomo sells – at least according to his webpage – is the 130ST-M15015.

Unfortunately, these are the only "real" measurements that I know of. Also the main point was to show that the calculation of using the RMS current is a good approximation.
(It's an approximation nonetheless, of course.)

If I find the time, I might make some measurements once I've got everything set up. That's not going to happen during the next 1.5 months due to lack of time. (Well, at least my Lenze servo arrived today.)
I'm also thinking about a way to measure the inertia of the complete system (including QR, wheel and possibly the button box) as I would like to determine the influence of the wheel weight.
Since I'm into drifting as well, this – for me – is actually more important than the torque of the thing. The torque is only of interest as a confirmation that I'm setting things up correctly.

 

This thread makes as less sense as the asking for rain and night. Game developers have to make the FFB for the masses, not for the small amount of DD wheels.. So you own a super wheel but you can't get the best of it? Bad luck for you is all I can say about...

mobile greets, Wolfgang

 

Stefano coding some VR features and its a pretty small part of the players that use it.

 

They are asking for unfiltered FFB not new code for FFB, so maybe they are not asking for something like rain and night.

 

It was expected that some supposedly underprivileged shouting from the valley of the tears ...

 

VR is hip nowadays. They have to do this or AC would be rated bad in game tests. Seriously a Oculus Rift would be more interesting for me than a DD wheel. But I surely wouldn't spend that much money for a Simracing equipment. That money would be better invested in a real world Akrapovic Exhaust for my real 1200cc Kawasaki.

mobile greets, Wolfgang