About dampers in bump vs rebound

Straight from the worst setup guide everyone. Make sure you go read it and be amazed at the rest of the similar most random non-sense making sentences you'll find in there.

@Poguinhas Search for posts made by @Georg Siebert. iirc he explained at some point the purpose of "upside-down" dampers vs normal ones.

 

I was wondering.. will it make sense if I rotate the monitor 180 degrees and try to read it again? It must be bitdefender acting up again.

 

Oh definitely worth a try.

 

Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

 

I'm disappointed, although it work for me to clear all the special events.

 

It's called placebo effect.

 

Yeah, placebo can be strong sometimes. But there's another thing. When I started online racing in a league I was practicing for a race, and I tried to come up with a good setup. Back than I had absolutely no clue about setups (not that I have much more now ) I started with the default and I did a few laps until I got comfortable with my pace. Then I started messing around with the setup based on what I've read on the internetz. And slowly my lap times got better and better. I was so excited that it was working!!! At one moment I could not get any better so I decided to stop and use that setup for the race. But just to see how good that setup was I decided to run a few laps with the default to see the difference. And there came my surprise and revelation: I was faster with the default setup

I've learned my lesson, and now I stick to the most basic changes, gears, tire pressure, camber, springs and ARB. And the last two only after I cannot improve my laps with the default setup any more.

 

The thing with dampers is: sometimes there might be a need to change them, e.g. because you changed a lot in the suspension setup.
But in >90% of the cases you can do alien-range laptimes without touching any of the dampers settings.

Normally, when optimizing dampers, we're talking about the last few hundreds or tenths of a second to get out of the setup.
So I'd strongly recommend focusing on other things (more driving, more basic setup options etc.).

 

This topic is about understanding how to setup rebound, I'm clueless & willing to learn.

@mms Yeah I see default setup & again alien time... So can you explain to me why this always come up each time I want to understand & improve to have a better understanding to play with the setup.

It almost like panic mode. Did I trigger something?

I will give a definite answer so you stop bothering me with this bull**** & I even wrote it in RD. It depend of the combo. I don't spend time with GT2 & GT3 car & in most cases it always on SPA or Monza when It happen that I use them. It's kind of obvious that I will point out on the setup.

Get what happen on weaker car like the Abarth 500, Aui TT Cup, DTM, 917k, open wheelers, Lotus Evora carbon, Supra Time Attack, etc whatever. Sorry, but default suck big time on those.

 

@MrDeap I don't really understand what you're trying to say but if someone is in panic mode it's you. I was commenting on Berniyh's post, if it bothers you so much you know where to find the ignore button...

 

Nothing wrong with trying things and get a feel for it and surely not with trying to understand what the car is doing and why.
I think the problem here is your way of arguing. You're giving the impression of having figured everything out and you seem very definite about it, but it's quite clear that there are quite a few things that you just got wrong because you're looking at things from a kind of weird perspective.
Try to go a step back and things will improve, is my advice.

A 917K is not a week car. Oh and the open wheelers surely aren't as well. Ok, apart from the Tatuus.

But ok, you've got a point there, especially on street cars, the setup sucks quite often, at least if you're looking at high performance.
However, the way to fix that is not to fiddle around with the dampers, those are fine in 99% of the cases.
Camber, pressures, sometimes ARB will fix this in almost every case. (Also gears, but we're talking handling here …)
Very rarely you need to touch a few other things like springs or ride height, e.g. if there is no ARB setting like on the Escort that Aris showed in his last video.

 

Read this damper tuning article. It's well reasoned and has practical setup advice.

http://ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/shocktune1.html

 

I have no choice to fiddle with it, because I change the aero setting. If there's no aero change, I usually don't fiddle with the stiffness of car.

Don't bother, everyone know it's bull****. There's enough evidence around it. (most raced online public combo)

It's not even related to alien, just the general who know how to setup their car in a certain way. Like me as an example. I get an unfair advantage.

 

Thanks for the reminder ;-) One more...

 

Just so that everyone can understand better. I can decrypt him, with experience.

In a @MrDeap world, it's impossible to be fast in the GT cars without a secret setup trick that a certain group of people are supposedly trying hard to keep hidden. The race cars are "too easy" to drive for him, so the only reason that anyone could be faster is setup.

The bull**** he is referring to is the statement(which is true) that you can make pretty damn good laptimes without even touching anything, the statement that yes you can still get gold in every single achievement even with 10 psi overinflated semi-slicks. Every time he is involved in a setup discussion, a few eventually understand the delusion and lack of knowledge he is in and sometimes try to wake him up, most of the time by saying that statement. (They are inside the conspiring group, obviously). Everyone has failed to shake him up. This has been going on here, on RD, on reddit for maybe more than a year.

A year of incomprehensible advice & guides, vehicle dynamics talk that MAKES NO SENSE whatsoever(seriously how do you even come up with this ?), poor setup sharing, claims about others' "driving exploits" etc...

The kind of crap that is constantly bringing the level of technical discussion to unprecedented lows.

Maybe it's time you re-evaluate yourself and try to learn for real or simply stop getting involved in any technical discussion. Plenty of people are having fun while having no clue about setup and there's nothing wrong about that.

 

I would like to see that without messing with the game data. It's kind of far fetched.

I'm not sure about that one. The most popular race public lobby online is SPA.

If you don't know anything about setup, expect a ridiculous large gap of time although the car is easy to drive.

 

Dampers are a tricky subject cause there is no steady state you can reach and then observe whether they're working correctly - it's entirely about changes in state, from accelerating to braking, braking to accelerating, straight to turning, left to right, etc. And the speed those things occur is as much about the driver inputs as how the car's set up.

Dampers cannot make a car corner flatter, or accelerate with more force on the driven tires, they just make it respond to changes in input differently. With stiffer dampers you get an immediate response but the car takes longer to reach the new steady state, with softer dampers you don't get the immediate response but you can hit that end state quickly. Which way is better depends on how suitable the start and end states are - if you're moving between 2 states that are both well balanced for the maneuver then either way is ok, if the starting state is not good then you want the fast transition with less damping.

As an example with SLA double wishbone, the instant you go from left to right (before any suspension vertical travel) the new outside wheel will generally be at too extreme a negative camber, and the body roll over time will bring it down to the right range for maximum grip, so depending whether you need an immediate correction, or you want maximum lateral force asap, you'd go stiff or soft.


As always I find pictures easier to explain with. The stiff damper generates a higher force early but takes longer to reach maximum, the soft damper ramps up more slowly but finishes sooner. The relative sizes of the gaps between them determines which setup can do a faster lap, but the shapes of both curves depend on driver inputs so there's no one right answer.

 

I had started doing the road car gold thing to prove you wrong(what an idiot I am). I had maybe the first 3 pages done without difficulty and I'm usually half a second to a second slower than the best road car drivers here.

It's great that you mention Spa let's see.

458 GT2 - 2.15.2 world record

default setup after 6 laps : 2.16.4

Oh yeah MASSIVE 1.2 seconds in setup. Surely the field doing 2.19 to 2.22 goofed up with setup and made things 4 seconds worse for them. Enlighten them with a non-sense setup guide please.

Whatever. You are still going to come up with some bull**** excuse.

If anyone wonders why I even care, imagine the guys that really want to learn, getting completely confused and sent in all sorts of wrong directions every time he posts something. It's already hard enough to learn with good information now they have to filter through the piles of crap he's leaving everywhere.

 

@PhilS13 It's not important, since it's my opinion. I made my point already. I was running in circle to more than half of the racers in a GT86 combo online few months ago simply because I had the camber & PSI adjusted. I've written in the chat before the 2nd round about the PSI & magically a good quarter went up to speed.

If a member of RD or clan whatever bother you about setup & their lap times, write directly to them & not me.

If other people get quicker because I write bull****... Yeah, placebo can be strong sometimes.

 

To be fair, adjusting PSI and camber on a road car is fairly easy since on pretty much all of them it's all way off by default.