[help] having trouble improving lap times

Don't brake and throttle at the same time, smooth is the name of the game, don't wrestle the car for useless 0.001's be smooth and gain 0.1's from better lines.

Definitely work on the spin-outs when braking, i'd even focus on that completely.
On trailbraking, If the rear starts going off don't ease of the brake but countersteer and even add more brake pressure.
When braking while cornering (near apex) if the car starts to oversteer release the brakes and give it a little bit of throttle or countersteer.
edit: also it might be important to >not< brake at the limit of grip all the time, just like in drifting corner entry speed is critical if you are too slow it's just as bad as too fast, learn to control the speed through the whole deceleration length.

Ideally you don't want to countersteer or throttle before apex, but if you learn to save the car and do small drifts in a controlled fashion you will be able to attack the corner with more confidence and with practice the countersteer and throttle should disappear (due to faster/preemptive corrections from experiences of being on/over the edge).

edit2: this is also why i said Macca is bad... for example SLS spins out earlier/easier but is more controllable while doing so, while when MP4 goes off it's harder to save it - thus it's more difficult to learn the skill on that car imho.

Also what brake gamma are you using? Sometimes it's good to mix stuff up a bit if you feel like no progress is being made - change some settings, like ie: use much lower braking balance (62-61 for MP4) or use different gamma. It will be harder at first but the effect of difference should help make progress, even if you'll end up returning to previous settings.

 

@Nao
I was using 3.0 gamma, would you recommend dialing it higher or lower?
Also won't a low front brake bias make me lock the rears even more?

 

@Nao "Don't brake and throttle at the same time, smooth is the name of the game,"

Brake and throttle at the same time, at the end of trail braking up to the apex, is the smoothest way to drive a car that has two pedals. All of the best drivers do it in AC. Hany does it, Niki does it, I do it, hell, Schumacher did it IRL.

If you want to counter my argument, please explain what happens when you brake and throttle at the same time, and why it's not smooth.

Throttle application, while on the brakes, just a bit before the apex is also ideal. Just a bit being 2 - 5cm.

@Poguinhas

I suggest a 1:1 brake gamma. If you're using the G27, there's no need at all for gamma: in my experience it'll just screw with your braking smoothness.

More brake bias in the rear will indeed lock the rears first. I suggest more in the front when starting out, because you don't know how to deal with oversteer on entry yet.

Here's a video from @Hany.

It's a bit old, but still applies as much. Current WR is not much faster than this, and it's over the WHOLE Nordschleife + GP track.



Observe.

 

Okeeey, i remember an inteview with some very fast irl driver that also was driving in iracing/rF etc (GT cars, can't find that text atm) that stated that the biggest difference between sim and rl is that in rl you don't use throttle while braking... ever.
(won't argue why, although it's probably due to how unstable power delivery is at very low throttle levels with drivetraing creating jolts when torque changes sign, and maybe due to very sensitive throttle pedal at low positions etc. - Schumacher could probably do it since it was F1 car that was prepared for it)

But i guess you are right, it is the fast way in AC... i seem to misinterpret "get on the power even before I fully release the brakes" as starting to accelerate out of the corner before releasing brakes (brake/throttle overlap), not to change brake balance with throttle... my bad.

 

@Nao

Many of the most modern IRL roadcars, and some racecars (I think) have engine override when braking.

So, basically, you can't do it effectively because it cuts engine torque. It also increases wear on the brakes and tires, obviously. It's nearly negligible if done properly, so it's not that extreme.

Bear in mind that there are also very many IRL GT and Cup drivers who brake with their right foot. It doesn't make it faster than left foot braking: they're just using inferior, outdated techniques because they can't adapt. There used to (And might still be) F1 drivers who brake with the right foot and say that you "do what you're most comfortable with". Doesn't mean they're not just talking out of their behind and aren't crappy drivers.

Saying that you NEVER left foot brake, or never overlap pedals, or never do this or that, is not realistic at all.

EDIT:

Here's also a good video when talking about driving styles. I think you can see just how more aggressive Enzo is compared to Hany.

All styles, as long as they have no UNNECESSARY control changes, work at the highest level.
The braking and throttle might look un-smooth in that video, but it's actually reeeaaalllyyy smooth, for him to be able to drive like that and make such rapid changes to the controls.

 

"Not realistic" in academic discussion or in our sim's context yes. But it was not my words, and they were used in context of the interview and car/series used by the driver and he was running GT cars at the time i believe. (can't remember name for the life of me).

Found a good comment on this topic here thou: http://pretendracecars.net/2015/05/05/blurring-the-line-with-severin-austerschmidt/ although this is >not< the interview i was searching for, it was something couple years older.
To quote the relevant part: "SA: The only thing I can think of that someone would have to unlearn in terms of driving techniques is a technique I see on many high-level sim racers where they use a very rear-biased brake balance and use the gas under braking to stabilize the car, enabling them to brake later and turn the car better under braking than using a normal braking technique. This is obviously something that you can’t do in a real racing car and would instantly wreck you into the closest barrier available."

Ofc balancing brakes with throttle is something that can be used, but in most of the materials i came across (interviews and books), this was not a common technique to use, and even then it was mentioned to be avoided more often than not.

 

@Nao

That's because the people who are against it haven't ever tried it in a real car, for one. It has a huge list of downsides, the whole "55% brake bias and alien trickery" thing, and some things are missing from simulations that would make driving like that very difficult, but the assumption that you would instantly wreck is completely null and void because there's no physics supporting it.

There can be an overlap without putting undue stress on the brakes, but it has to be slighter than what we can get away with in sims. Otherwise, the brakes would start mechanically wearing, and the temperatures would skyrocket.

The most reputable source that I have come across that talks about this is Ross Bentley, and he only mentioned "being hard on the brakes". It has no catastrophic effect whatsoever.


Brake temperature is the biggest reason to not use this technique in a real car. Once your rear brake temperatures skyrocket, and your front brakes don't get hot enough, you indeed plummet into the closest barrier when you go to brake hard on the next braking zone because you have no bite on the front brakes, or no bite on the rear brakes, and either understeer hard without stopping or spin out depending on the situation.

The technique itself is very viable. Brake temp is also the reason you don't see it that much in rFactor or GTR2 (which have their own physics engine abuse methods) for example, but you can see it A LOT in AC.

 

Guess we will have to wait on Aris to implement that haha But i wonder if it will be that bad... i mean when used in moderation it's only like 1-2s of 50hp on turn in - energy wise thats like having to brake from 2-3km/h higher top speed. If the car is super on the edge yeah, but i bet we won't see much problems with it in AC Also if this was a popular technique irl shouldn't the cars just use different disk/cooling duct sizes to account for more rear braking force distribution (that we could see/use in the sim as well)?

 

It's not a popular technique for the same reason why trail braking wasn't taught in racing schools for tens of years, despite being proven to be far superior to pure straightline braking.

It's not a popular technique for the same reason why trail braking STILL isn't taught etc.

 

Never mind, my answer was also a little bit to harsh But I don't see the point to give someone with a 2:22, who wants to go to a 2:20 first, hints how he can reach the 1 second WR window. In my opinion it's better to give him some basic help regarding grip (look at the tyre temperature, go for 33psi pressure result), use that grip for better wing setup (more high speed) and give some direction regarding brake points, apex and gearing.

@Poguinhas
@Arch is right regarding your braking and corner speed, to say it with more amateurish words: you lack some flow of the track and trust in the grip And it reminds me for some tracks where I was facing a laptime wall, always trying to improve with later brakepoints and this is the wrong way. Just activate the ideal racing line, nothing to feel ashame for ^^ Don't watch the colors, just concentrate to the moments where you can't follow it. In these moments you do what you can see every day at public multiplayer, overbraking into corners and missing the apex. So just relax a little bit, try 0-3 or 0-4 wing first, brake a few meters earlier and take the corners in one smooth move, slow in and fast out. Try to find nice corner speeds to follow the racing line and when you find them, search for the brake points to achieve them.

So then you can use RSR Livetiming: http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/
You don't need the app, but you can watch sector times (e.g. of a time you want to achieve). If there is a sector which differs more than the other two, there is a big mistake in it. If your sectors are equal slower it's a good sign at this point. Next watch other onboard videos and compare it with your replays, look after big speed differences in corners to bring yourself nearer to the limits. The MP4 can be frustrating because the line between still good and over the limit is very very slight.

And the secret ultra elite alien pro tip:
Have a look at Fonsecker GT3 sound mods (https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/mclaren-mp4-12c-gt3-v1-6.21311/) for the immersion, it brings at least one second when the MP4 doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner any more

 

Track knowledge AND ability to drive on the proper line is also probably the most important part in making a good time.

I'm attempting to get close to/beat the Magione GT86 WR right now, but I'm 2 seconds off.

I'm absolutely terrible on Magione. I have no idea where the bumps are, where the camber is, where I should place the car etc. The WR video is on YT so I can study that, but I still don't know the track. The flow is very different from other tracks, and you lose grip when you really don't expect to. You need to break a lot of conventional driving "rules" at Magione, because the surface is so terrible.

Compare that to Vallelunga where I can get really close to the GT2 and GT3 WR's because the track just feels so good to me. (Although none of those are on RSR because after a year or so, I FINALLY got it to work and recognize my laps.)

So, it's possible to drive the ideal line, on the wrong line!

 

What?
Magione is the flattest track in AC.


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

Here's what I'm gonna try:
First I'm gonna set brake gamma to 0, then I'm gonna pick a road car and do multiple laps on Mugello with a dusty track. That way I hope to improve my braking smoothness, and also steering precision since it's a very flowing track.
After I see some improvement on my pedal inputs I'm gonna try a lap around Spa with a GT3 (not that Spa with a GT3 is the only time I care about, it's just kind of my yardstick) and post the results.
Also, what do you guys recommend me to do with the Nissan? I really like driving it, but have a lot of problems with instability, mainly the rear end. Would appreciate some tips from you guys.
Thank you!

 

Update:
Progress is really, really, really slow.
Picked the 458 and started lapping Mugello on old tarmac (since I believe Dusty gets grippy to quickly)
first I tried 1.0 gamma, but ended up going up to 2.5 to get more precise at low pressures.
I'm not really watching lap times, but after 25 laps my best time was a 2:18,5 on one of the very few laps where I didn't go out of track.
After I get a good amount of laps I'll post some replays to let you see the progress (if there is any) and maybe help me further improve.

 

If you have problems going out of the track, you should really be driving the GT86, not the 458.

 

I'm getting more consistent now, got some good laps and a 2:15,2.
I'm able to brake later and pitch the car into the corner to carry more speed, although I still need work on my pedal release and I believe I can still brake deeper into the turns. After 50 laps or so I'm gonna restart the session to reset the grip level, and if I get 100 today I'll change car and track combo.
The reason I didn't pick the Toyota is because my braking already needs work, and I think I'll get overloaded if I put heel and toe into that, so for now I'm only using semi-auto cars.

 

Are you using VSync? If so, disable it as it creates alot of input lag. I couldn't believe the difference it made when my eyes were opened a few weeks ago.

 

I've not driven any of the gt3's for months, and when I did was never that quick in them. I only started driving the 458 because aloog was always a busy server and I wanted to be where the action is. I like to think I had a 2:19 out of the Mclaren but that could be a lie, I just remember celebrating what was for me a milestone lap-time.

I didn't like driving the 458 because of no ABS which in turn made me look at my hardware to increase the pedals feel, a £12 spring later and driving the Ferrari became a joy.

I'm going to revisit the other gt cars as soon as I've cracked the 2:17.

Wait, what? You shaved 7 seconds off your lap time in one day?!

 

Dbl post.

 

That's with the 458 road car in Mugello. I'm doing some training with road cars in bad tarmac to improve my brake inputs.
I actually think those last seconds will cost me a lot of work. Now I came to notice how poor my pedal inputs are, I don't know if it's bad habits or bad hardware (I really hate the G27 brake) but it's gonna take a lot of effort to improve.