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Minorating.com (drivers thread)

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Minolin, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    [​IMG]
    I… I always thought it was. At least it gave me a good feeling when somebody hit me and MR said "1.0 CP 0% RE", then I'd think "at least that point counts for you, bastard".
    You just told me Santa isn't real, man.

    Speaking of getting hit: Does / will MR consider whether an opponent in a collision was on track or came from the gravel trap? Last night the guy in front of me went way too fast through T11 on the Nürburgring GP track, cut T12 (Warsteiner) through the gravel and hit me into the right back shooting back on track. Bam! – 1 CP for me which I really did not deserve. (In case of interest I may pm you my MR id)
     
  2. V8_KB

    V8_KB Alien

    I don't want to make it a cheater guide, so check your PM.

    :eek: Clearly you spend too much time on programming. ;)
     
    Berniyh likes this.
  3. Wergilius

    Wergilius Simracer

    i'm sure this already have been asked but 176 pages is a lot to browse so I ask again:
    when practice on an an empty online server my rating drops from A/B to C after a while,
    is there anyway to avoid that (I'll guess this is currently by design)?
     
  4. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Yes, by design. To achieve A or B you have to drive within attack range of other cars.
     
  5. V8_KB

    V8_KB Alien

    It depends on your CP and attack range %. For example recently I had over 300km done in two sessions with 0% attack range, one (95km) was Q for Nordschleife race, another (200+) was practice on Riverside and with those sessions I was still grade A.
     
  6. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Pit Exit:

    Here they are for KS track:
    Barcelona:
    [​IMG]

    Brands Hatch:
    [​IMG]

    Imola:
    [​IMG]
    Magione:
    [​IMG]
    Mugello:
    [​IMG]
    Nürburgring:
    [​IMG]
    RBR:
    [​IMG]
    Silverstone: (forgot the pit exit for National layout)
    [​IMG]
    Vallelunga:
    [​IMG]
    Zandvoort:
    [​IMG]

    I'd say:
    high on the list: Brands Hatch, Nürburgring, Imola, Silverstone (GP and Intern.)

    medium: Silverstone (National), RBR (maybe even low since it's behind T1 and on to the straight), Barcelona, Mugello

    low: Zandvoort (that short line doesn't help much), Vallelunga (no dedicated line, maybe use the the line from pit exit to where it joins with the track limit line),



    @Berniyh: Riverside has a pretty long wall and after it there is no pit exit line.
     
    baboon likes this.
  7. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    So do you only get CP for cutting pit exit from the pit side? I never cut pit exit but if im 2 or 3 wide at e.g Mugello main straight I will cross the pit line track side once it is clearly safe to do so. I also pull off track after every race if I dont do an in lap, or in Q as well.

    For mod tracks that arent included will it still be business as usual with MR apart from the pit exit thing?
     
  8. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Yesterday on the test server you sometimes got CP for going into the pit exit line, but it's not intended to be like this. Minolin will figure it out, it's only supposed for cars driving out of the pits.

    Pulling off track isn't an issue, it's cutting track with gaining an advantage that will be served with CP. Slow down on a cut so you don't gain time and you don't get a warning or CP.
     
    Andy-R likes this.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Noted, thank you very much. Never heared about NJMP and Transfagarasan, sound like drugs.

    I'm very sorry. But actually chances are high that the real calculation gave the other guy more points than you. There's a correlation between the algorithm's result and the RE-rating. I just don't trust the RE enough to actually use it.

    Genericly, no. This is high on my list, but not for MR anymore.
    Once we have the 2.3 cut data we can at least punish the guys if a cut was detected, so in many cases - yes (but no for a simple offtrack & rejoin).

    Got it, ty.

    The others are right on this. If you drive alone for 1000km, you will end up with a perfect C (unless you manage to get CP while driving alone which is possible in the future).
    To obtain A (B is almost impossible then), you need 2% = 20km of traffic. To be honest it's not exactly easy to fall below those 20km, but it happened. I'd just ask myself why somebody uses MP sessions when he's below that mark ;)


    ty, much appretiated

    Yes.

    Yes to both mod and official tracks. Unless I go there and define some stuff manually, it is business as usual. Obviously I'll try to do most of the official tracks first, sorted by popularity.

    I think I already got it. It's cumbersome to detect "this one is on an outlap now", so I focused a lot here. Totally forgot to clear it when you crossed the real finish line.
    Test-Server is updated.

    Interesting, didn't think about this one. T1 chicanes are a good place to pull off, didn't ever test for possible CPs. But my guts say it's already well handled.
     
  10. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    I have to agree with @V8_KB here: you really should spend more time driving. :D
     
    V8_KB, Minolin and Rolz like this.
  11. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Funny. As soon as I mention the word "drugs" relating to any context people tell me to have more spare time.
     
    Ace Pumpkin likes this.
  12. Wergilius

    Wergilius Simracer

    Ok, then it is what it is but I don't really understand the logic behind it (or what code make your grades drop).
    If you on an empty server I previous had the assumption that your grade should not be affected or downgraded to C (I'll guess it will not go lower than that).
    It says something about archiving old session or something like that in the chat/console.
     
  13. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Actually was referring to the "never heard of" part. ;)
     
  14. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    I don't know if this really answers your question, but let me explain how the system works in an example.

    Imagine, this is your data at the start of the day:
    upload_2017-4-18_13-29-22.png

    MR has your 17 last sessions in it's memory. In total this is around 960 km.
    We can also see that you have some attack (=traffic) distance up to session 62, but then it stopped and you started driving alone.
    Still, your weighted Attack % sum is 2,8%, so I assume you are A or B at this point.


    Now you drive one more (lonesome) session of 62,1 km. Of course there is no traffic, so you have 0% attack distance.
    The new session is added as #74 at the bottom:

    upload_2017-4-18_13-32-58.png

    Now we can see that your total km is above 1000 km now. MR will pick the oldest one (#57 in this case) and drop it.
    This way we can maintain "regarded" stats within a reasonable range which has some good effects.
    The weighted Attack % did already drop to 2,6%, just because we added more distance with 0%.

    After MR dropped the #57 session, we are below 1000 km again:
    upload_2017-4-18_13-35-43.png

    Unfortunately we also dropped even more attack range, which leads to 1,8% weighted sum. And that's not enough for the AB requirement anymore, so MR will recalculate your grade and notice "oh, this is only C now".
    The reason for downgrading you is that we archived the 57 session, just like it says.

    We could prevent this behaviour by looking at the historic stats. For example if a driver has more than X km attack in his lifetime, we won't ***** around with those 2%.
    On the other hand I'm not totally convinced that it is asked too much. Give me reasons, and I'm looking into changes.

    Edit: <anchor>
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  15. Rolz

    Rolz Alien

    Can this be added to the first post or on ur website? Would be handy for lots of ppl trying to figure out how they got a drop in grade... Nicest explanation I've seen so far... but I might have missed u or anyone else in the last 177 paged :p
     
    Minolin likes this.
  16. Wergilius

    Wergilius Simracer

    Thank you for the very good explanation, that makes it very clear what and why it is happening.

    One suggestion could be not to add sessions where there is no other cars, that would at least delay the result.
    I can give you the scenario: I participate in a few leagues where there is a race every 2nd week and 8-10 times/year.
    (and another one, once a week, but don't think that one is an MR)

    Between the races the servers are open for practice and I do practice a lot, alone most of the time.
    I do most practice online to have correct track setup/condition.

    For the league races the grade itself is not used so its not an actual issue but recently I have also went
    back to some public mayhem servers when tired of practice, where some of them did not accept C grade.

    But it's not so big deal since it normally just take one clean race to get back on AB level.
    (or something like that)
     
    martcerv and Minolin like this.
  17. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Actually I did this effort exactly for this purpose, so I don't need to explain it again :D

    Good point, but hell no!
    This would remove the entry-level possibility to improve your grade: Just show you are practicing. Your head might be way too deep into league racing, imagine you are a bleeding greenhorn to simracing:

    First visit on a server, much bamm, suddenly every 2nd server tells you something about D grade and minorating.com. So go there and learn about the system and expectations among simracers. You think "mh ok, that sounds nice as well". Read rules, spend effort on practicing and theory, and so on. Now the only way to re-enter the MP world would be a MR-*D-server, where you really can't control your MR stats.

    No, in this case I'd like to see and reward practice sessions on lonely servers. That's also what we recommend to regain good grades: Drive alone/with few others on the most restrictive server you can enter (opposed to jump into the next 24/24 GT3 at Spa server).
    So no, those sessions are very important to me.
    Btw. the story I sketched here isn't pure fantasy, I know of at least one wrecker who recovered to a well respected online driver in this way. Most heartwarming thing in my simracing career.

    On the other hand:

    Ok, that's reason enough. I already had one occurancy of a league driver who struggled to get 2% for surprising reasons. Doing a lot of practice in this way adds enough arguments to improve the situation.
    Let me see what I can come up with.
     
    TDS, Rolz, Wergilius and 1 other person like this.
  18. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    In terms of problem corners on official tracks.

    [​IMG]
    Imola: The worst is Variante Alta, this is prone to big flat cuts, Acque minerali exit running way wide onto astro turf if planned can be a significant gain.

    [​IMG]

    Zandvoort Chicane at t12 I have seen many go straight across here through the sand and not even trigger the official cut, not sure if thats been fixed but its pretty blatant and on purpose.

    [​IMG]
    Magione, never actually seen people do it but on stracker in one of my ABCN server multiple people were straight lining from t9 to t11.
     
    Rolz and Minolin like this.
  19. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Love it, Marty.

    #0 Monza (done)
    #1 Zandvoort (PE super important; cuttable T12)
    #2 Brands Hatch (PE important; no cuttable corners?)
    #3 Imola (PE unnecessary = important; Variante Alta highly cuttable)
    #4 Spa (needs rework and is still popular as well)
    # 5 Nürburgring (PE important, both NGK Chicanes)
    # 6 Barcelona (PE important, cuts in GP chicane)

    # ? Silverstone (PEs very important on int/gp, no cuttable corners? The one before Maggots maybe?)

    # 96 Mugello (wasn't there a shortcut between two track sections?)
    # 97 Vallelunga (wasn't there a shortcut between two track sections?)
    # 98 RBR
    #99 Magione (Pit exit important, Cuts T9-11)

    Edit: Overlooked Schnipps mass information
     
  20. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    I think the only chicanes where you can gain are T4 and especially T13.
    T5 is possible in principle but most cars will be unsettled such that you actually don't gain.
    [​IMG]
    It might be possible to cut in T7 in the classic layout, but I wouldn't say it's that critical.
    Overall I'd say it's one of the low prio tracks.
    [​IMG]
    Only the run-off area, but the penalty system – at least in quali mode – is quite strict there.
    Unfortunately not in race mode, though.
     
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