refresh a 50hz o 60hz?

Hi to everyone in the forum and a special hug to Kunos for bringing us the only real driving simulator =P

Just a simple question still left unanswered: does the game render engine run natively at 50 or 60 cycles per second?
I'm actually playing on a Vpr and at 60 Hz Assetto runs pretty decent but it get a constant little stutter. When set both Vpr and the game at 50Hz the scrolling in the game is smoother, even if i do have some slightly stutter when doing tight turns (both modes were tested with Vsync On).
Is it just my pc or is a design choice? What's the official suggested monitor refresh setup?
Thank you!
G


-ps.my spec. cpu i7 2600k, gfx650ti, 8gb ram, Windows 7, vpr epson tw3200, g27wheel

 

Oh sorry! Didn't know, just edited

 

Fortunately my vpr accepts ANY refresh rate between 23 and 60hz, I just want to make sure that i'm not interpolating the signal and running it as originally designed (I guess the rendering engine it's 50 cycles per sec. to catch the PAL signal, am I right?)
Sorry for my bad english =P

 

It is a bad design of the game. The game isn't for Playstation 1 with old NTSC\PAL CRT-s, stuff like that was never relevant to PC anyway. Just bad design that kills the game for some of us who are sensitive to stutter.

 

Stutter is only on some setups, no issues on mine running 2560x1440@59p is smoother with v-sync on though on my own getting over 200fps is close with sync off.

There are some people having issuez with 60 and 120hz which seems to be a bug of sorts so maybe try 59 or 119 instead as it may help.

 

lol the 59 and 119 bull**** is because your refresh rate is like 59.950 hz and some games will show 59 and windows will show 60.
If an LCD was dropping frames that wouldn't occur only on a specific refresh rate.
Everybody has stutter - not everyone has the ability to tell. I had some crappy LCD with HUGE amount of input lag and insane ghosting, and never knew I have any of it until I got used to a 144hz monitor and tried the old one again.
Also when I started playing AC I immediately contacted steam for a refund when I saw the stutter. I was having a terrible time looking at the monitor, especially when cornering, and my concentration was 90% of the stuttering. Now I am maybe 30% as sensitive as I was, after playing it like this for a while and not playing other games except this and DOTA 2.
Anyway a developer suggested someone playing 50hz on this forum last week. It's official. I'm just afraid they won't fix it because they don't care for 1% of the players who are not using a 60hz slide show monitor and already paid for the game.
BTW vsync can't ever reduce stutter, it is more than capable to worsen stutter though.

 

Ok not everybody has a ****ty screen, not everybody has stutter.

If V-sync cant reduce stutter and smooth out the display what would be the point of it, I have no idea what your setup is but if your using a 144hz monitor and your setup cant render at that rate or above then stutter will happen as frames are skipped even with v-sync on. Some setups will stutter with frame rates well above the refresh rates and v-sync doesn't work great in all software and setups.

I have zero stuttering issues and dont play on a ****ty screen even if its only 2560x1440@60 still its much smoother with v-sync on no matter what you say though there is a slight input lag also. My setup can render well above my refresh rates unless completly maxed with a full AI grid, I have had issues with stutter in the past though not any more. If you think everyone has the exact same setup and issues as you then sadly your mistaken, if this was a bug that effected everyone do you not think everyone would be screaming about it? Developers may find it quite hard to fix an issue they cant reproduce it as it may only be limited to a few people for no real apparent reason.

 

V-sync is not meant what so ever to remove stutter, it is meant to remove screen tearing by the consequence of ADDING STUTTER. G-sync will be something that will help remove stuttering and tearing, because the refresh rate will be changed on the monitor to match the GPUs output of fps.

 

How does it add stutter? It renders a frame for every screen refresh so when its working as it should this easily produces the smoothest motion with zero stuttering for me.

When i had the gtx480 sli setup it was a stutterfest in many sims but still generall there was a way around it but quite an issue which I gladly no longer have with the current setup. No real issues with stutter on the titan but its there a little with v sync off at rates between 60 and 100, anything above 120 is pretty smooth but some minor tearing. Input lag is noticeable between 60p v synced and no sync with frames over 120.

I still think this is a very setup specific issue, some get it bad some minor others not at all. Its not a general rule saying ac or any game in general always stutters for everyone or doesnt do so for everyone. Ive had setups that are on both sides of that and its one thing i hate more then others and so do whatever i can to get rid of it if it comes up.

 

Ah, I made the mistake that it only adds stutter, but it also adds input lag due to lower frame rates comparing to 90+ fps. Stutter only occurs of course when your frame rate renders below 60 fps due to v-sync needing to "wait" for the next frame for things to be rendered. This will be increasingly worse when in demanding situations like a start or large crash. Obviously with your rig you will never have those problems, and yes stutter seems to be very subjective to rigs and monitors and preference all together. When I was using my brothers 120hz monitor I had massive stutter for some odd reason, v-sync on or off. Sorry for the vague post before.

 

Actually in AC I noticed with v-sync on mostly it will drop to half frame rate, this somehow gets solved by pressing alt enter twice before the race start and it appears to add triple buffering of sorts but still maintains v-sync. This will then be much smoother at say 40-60fps where otherwise it is pretty much crap as it stutters real bad and then goes to half rate if the frames drop for a few seconds or more, this was more an issue for me with one Titan but can still happen with big grids as it drops below 60 with the tyre smoke and AI collisions.

If you have a 120hz monitor and don't maintain that rate then v-sync in AC will likely be pretty bad, worth trying the ALT ENTER trick. Press it once goes to window mode, press it again goes back to full screen even if doing multiple restarts and things start to slow down this will get it back to normal I found. Some guys with AMD crossfire said it disabled one card so not good for them but worked well on my single and sli Titan setup. I really don't know why that works but there are obviously some bugs with full screen rendering in AC atm, same with the few guys getting lots of stuttering but then they are fine at multiple of 50hz. It doesnt really make much sense but it can happen. Sure its a bug and not as designed just depends if the devs figure out whats going on.

 

So, if 50Hz isn't the official rendering rr of the graphical engine, what is the exact clock of it? Is it somehow derived from the refresh rate of the physical engine?
I guess, correct me if I am wrong Kunos, that there's no OFFICIAL RR for our monitors. But then, just for the sake of knowledge, i would like to know what is the speed update of the RENDER engine, because to me it seems NEARER to the 50hz clock rather than to the 60hz. Would you please clarify?
Much appreciated
G

 

The render engine outputs stuff as fast as it's allowed, I'd think? I get the smoothest response when I've locked it to my screens' refresh rate of 75Hz.

 

Dunno Atle, from what I get in theory the RR of the render engine is fixed (imagine this as how many times per sec the "scene" is CALCULATED-prerendered, not RENDERED), what changes is just the framerate (basically this is how many times per sec the scene is DISPLAYED-rendered assuming you have a capable monitor).
I.E., if a game render engine is set to work at 50Hz, it will assign 50 calculated "scenes" per sec to the output signal. Then, this signal had to carry actual VISUAL "scenes", so you can theoretically double the times the signal renders on your screen (I.E. go at 100 FPS, but in this case you will have "twins frame" that show exactly the same scene).

An extract from an old article of Gamasutra tells us the difficulties of outputting at 60Hz while still having steady moving "scenes":
<<A lot of timing is millisecond based.
Part of the reason for these timing issues is the NTSC not-quite-60Hz problem. The PAL (and majority of the rest of the world) 50Hz refresh timing is easier to handle. After all 1000ms / 50Hz = 20ms per frame, with NTSC you get a fractional number instead. Why is this an issue? Well 60Hz (~59.97Hz) is very common, and 1000/60=16.66+ and as a lot of timing is millisecond based you can imagine the issue with matching 16.66. A lot of game engines try to compensate by varying between 15 and 17 ms so that over time it evens out to 60Hz. At 30FPS this jerkyness is less noticeable, but animation feels more stiff instead, and visual feedback vs user input is slower>>.

I am not a technician by any means, any mistake is unintentional and any help to understand this issue relatively to Assetto will be greately appreciated.
G

 

250-350

 

50Hz with 50 FPS Limit and Vsync On, take it or leave it but try it first.

The 59.97Hz doesn't seem to affect the stuttering, I've just forced my display to run at 61 Hz meaning the Hz range was set to 60-62Hz, this gives a totally stable 60.000 FPS in the AC redner stats and the stutter is still there while 50Hz with the 49-51Hz range gives a variable 50Hz (hard to read it but the AC redner stats shows around 49.99 to 50.01) without any stuttering.

This introduces quite a lot of lag but if you're used to Vsync then it's the only way to go, if you're seeing stuttering at synced 60Hy that is, because some say that they don't have it.

 

Official or not - you judge