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ACC Blog Tyres! oh... it's raining...

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Aristotelis, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Still would love to have an answer to this. ;)
     
  2. pons

    pons Simracer

    From what I understood of the SimExpo Interview by the "abgefahren community" this is the case.

    Edit: Can't find it atm, maybe my head is playing tricks on me...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    :)

    That's just didn't answer about drying off directly. But I think it just can't dry for the same durations if collected water levels are different.

    Going next level would be drying off responding to wind, and sun.... :D
     
  4. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Based on the quoted part, I think the answer should be that it's the case, but actually the quote doesn't answer my question.
    It just tells you that puddles are scripted for each circuit, it doesn't say that the overall watering and drying effect is different for each circuit.
    But yeah, if you read in between the line, then the better/worse drainage is simulated (effectively).
     
  5. I have a little question about Marbles.
    Are they will be more incisive on vibrations and car behaviour, other than the slick + marbles in rain interaction Aristotelis mentioned?
    Like marbles sticking to hot tyres easily and require some time before shake them off with all the pro/cons.

    Plus, not really tyres related but.. The gravel/dirt from a car running out and back to the tarmac will be present and affect the others car aswell?
     
  6. chakko

    chakko Alien

    BTW, flatspots are very noticable in the FFB. Usually happens to me when i "spin", and slide across the track for a couple of hundred metres. :p
     
  7. Neilski

    Neilski Hardcore Simmer

    Hmm, I tried (a couple of days ago) to see if flatspots were modelled - turned off ABS, drove down the road with throttle wide open and fronts locked for quite a while (>100 m probably) and I couldn't feel even a hint of flatspots on my G27.
     
  8. XzzDSA

    XzzDSA Racer

    Very impressed by all that I've been reading - And I'm certainly looking forward to the release version of this title.

    When that's said however, lets talk Force Feedback.
    AC1 had okay ffb, you had a pretty good idea of what the whole car was doing, although IMHO it still lacked a bit of detail in regards to what the rear end was doing.

    But in ACC, there's absolutely no feel of grip from the rear-end.
    As I understand, the ffb in AC1 was 'simulated' through the front axle mostly. And I get the realism point, but in a simulator, where 99% of users don't have motion rigs, we need more information than just what the front tyres are doing.
    For this to really become a joy to drive, IMHO this needs much more attention than what I'm currently seeing.

    I understand that this is an EA, and the first real version at that - And as such, this is purely feedback, grounded in my own opinions and how I drive.

    Not sure if this is even the right topic for this, but I guess atm. It's the best fitting, official topic.

    Cheers Kunos, and congratulations on what is turning out to be a stunning title, in many ways.
     
    chakko likes this.
  9. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but somehow in the dry I have to drag the brakes to get them to overheat, while in the wet (Storm) the front brakes are starting to overheat while braking for T1.
    They don't get red, but they reach yellow on the indicator.


    @Aristotelis
    Is this due to different brake cooling duct openings?

    I know i.e. that in MotoGP it's not uncommon that drivers use steel disc brakes in wet conditions instead of carbon ceramic ones, but they also have bike swaps allowed. Since in GT3 the cars must work in all conditions from dry to wet I'd be surprised if there are different brakes being used.

    Or is this (simply) a bug?
     
  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    Yeah it is slightly off-topic I suppose, I already stormed about this through general discussion thread lol
    You should feel whole car through your eyes, with ffb feel the front. Adding sound whole set of sense is very good IMO, the feel of the tires is very believable and subtle. I think it is misleading to say that there is no feel of rear tires, if you connect the dots, have front on track for example, but you see your view angle slightly swimming you can very clearly tell that rear end is struggling with grip. It is more difficult to do when it happens quickly and in a curve, but there is plenty of feel to it, it is just not the ffb which does all the announcements lol

    I also suspect that motion rigs..... even inertia feel irl (which motion rigs won't give anyway) is overrated in terms as sense to feel the car. But maybe.

    Also steering works at the front axle, so it is kinda correct, I think.
     
  11. WallyM

    WallyM Alien

    That may be due to too much FFB gain introducing clipping. If you're getting clipping, the relatively small amplitude flatspot vibration is going to be one of the first things you lose.
     
  12. XzzDSA

    XzzDSA Racer

    'Feel' does not equal 'Seeing' or 'Hearing'.
    Basically, to be fast and consistent, and not kill your car, you need to be able to catch a loss of traction before you see it. This is not possible with the way the FFB works currently.

    As I mentioned, yes, having FFB produced only from the front axle is probably more realistic, but at the same time you don't have any other feel for what the car is doing.

    I'll end it here though, I left my feedback and that's that.
     
  13. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    But you can feel the rear getting loose from the front axel, I don't know what other ffb effect they could possibly add to feel the rear more? When the rear end gets loose the car wants to keep rotating AKA oversteer and this can easily be felt in FFB for me. Sure you cant really drift the cars around and catch everything late like on street tyres with slicks but that's kind of why when unexperienced people get drives in race cars they give them wets on dry tracks as they are more forgiving and less snappy at the limit.
     
    mantasisg likes this.
  14. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Don't bite. Both of you will find ways to prove you're 100 % right :p
     
  15. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    The proof will show I am always 100% right. If I am proven to be wrong then I was just testing you. :D
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    That's what I fear about simracing, too much of guys like this one ^^^ will accumulate and push devs to the corner... We don't need that if we are about to be talking about simulation, it is science in its own way, delusional simracers is a bit of an issue I'd say, educate yourself and understand what simulation means.

    What on earth nonsense is that, seeing and hearing ARE senses lol, how they are not equal to feel ? That's one hit. Second hit is that it is more than possible to feel and catch loss of traction now, if you are sharp enough you'll sense even smallest angle of oversteer or understeer. Third hit, you have more senses than FFB, while FFB pretty much tells everything anyway, just not as instant and exact as you wish, I suppose. What do you want, slip angle bar popping up in the middle of your screen ?
     
  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    For sure all of us could be possibly be wrong sometimes... but when people has mentality of flatearther what can you do ?

    It is a bit sad, that in simracing there appears to be an edge when you go too real, you'll meet resistance and all sorts of challenges because of all sorts of weird individual conceptions.

    If you'd ask me, seems like lots of simracers realism standard stops somewhere where AC is, and as ACC is obvious step... it is a jump forward, it is unbelievable for many. How ironic is that if you go too real it literally becomes unbelievable to many.

    I think most will level up, especially as multiplayer and more content will come up and they naturally will spend more time.

    ***

    Back on bright stuff and the actual topic. Have you, people, noticed how much better is rubbered tarmac, than clean, and how much worse is the outside where all the marbles and dirt are at ? I really like it, brings so much more depth. I have pretty good expectations about how used track will transform when it'll become wet. Looking forward so much ! Surfaces physics is probably 10x more detailed than it was in AC, the only really tricky thing in AC was to understand tiny cambers in some circuts. Now it is whole different thing !

    There is so much in ACC if you go to the detail.
     
    Nahkamarakatti likes this.
  18. Neilski

    Neilski Hardcore Simmer

    Well, after the tyre-wrecking I was just driving in a basically straight line with a little weaving, so the FFB amplitude should have been pretty low (nowhere near clipping anyway). I have the min force on my wheel set to 10 or 15 IIRC.

    Come on, there's no need for that.
     
  19. WallyM

    WallyM Alien

    Regarding senses and feedback, a really interesting experiment is to drive the car in two ways:
    1. With force feedback set to zero
    2. With sound turned off

    Go on, try it. Then see which way it feels easier to control the car. You might be surprised how much you "feel" the car through what you hear.
     
    mms likes this.
  20. Neilski

    Neilski Hardcore Simmer

    Would be fun/interesting to turn off just the engine for one run and everything but the engine for another :)
    (I can't recall if that's possible.)
     
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