Wr with gamepad? how fast should gamepad vs wheel be in ac?

don`t see why it is a problem ... if someone wanna drive with pad why penalize him .. from my perspective it is handicap for them and I would even give him some assists (i think there are some) to compensate their less precise and harder to master controller .. and if somebody beats my time with controller kudos to him... reason I use wheel is more about immersion and it would feel weird to use anything else

 

It is all just how well you can control the car that way...For example accelerating with a switch type rather than anolog control = easy as long as the actuation is linear press the button release it rapidly to not have full throttle and your golden. Hey if it works for ya go ahead. I can imagine people not wanting to have racing setups, heck I for one drive all arcades pretty much with a controller even if I sit in a cockpit with my wheel ahead of me. Gamepads or anything for that matter should be = to wheels, not to say they need assists, but if you can manage to do it the same way as the rest of us, sure.

 

This sentence was completely unnecessary. This puts your comment in a trolling league. We already know your view on FFB wheels.

When comparing realism of wheel/gamepad/mouse inputs (not the philosophy of methods) it comes down to main questions "how fast you can provide the input" and "is the speed at which you can provide the input realistic ".

Personally I hate gamepads for steering and would easily choose a mouse which is more precise but still as fast.
Also I would take comsumer FFB wheel over gamepad for immersion and precision (with disadvantage of being slower to catch massive slides). Afterall when you are really good at driving you shouldn't be performing massive slides when you are going for the best lap times. Smooth slides to yaw the car into the corners are perfectly controllable with consumer FFB wheel.

But as I said before it doesn't make sense to slow down someone artificially for the reasons mentioned in my previous post.

 

Troll thread is trolled.

 

BTW playing with mouse ... is beyond me.

 

The gamepad's controls are supposed to control the same thing one would control with a wheel. Ofc depending on the settings there could be some unrealistically fast movements and whatnot, although one would need to be deadly precise. I don't get this kind of threads. One could drive a real car in real life with some kind of a controller and could be so good at it that he outpaced someone on a wheel. What can the game do about it? Artificially limit gamepad inputs so that they can't beat the wheels? It's all just different inputs, if you get it perfectly with either of them, your lap times should be good.

 

the sarcasm was lost on you right?

 

Sarcasm and irony are my two favorite things.

 

The problem isn't that there are skilled users with pad, but that there are many wheel users with poor or below average ability
Clearly true padders is with no aids or only active factory abs, and what's the point for a penalty without h-shifter? For simulate the clutch and don't rev the engine when i upscaling i don't press for a moment the accelerator and in this time i change the gear

 

Mine too.

 

The only troll in this topic is you, so why don't you go and play alone with your joystick if you love it so much and stop being a neophyte in public.

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@ everyone else: The purpose of this topic was to see how everyone thinks about the question of whether gampads should be as fast as wheels in a racing sim that praises simulation. I think it's a very valid question to raise.

My opinion is clearly that they should not be as fast, but it seems that a lot of you have no issue about this, so I got my answer. If you wheel users have no issue about being slower than pad users, considering the same skill level involved, fine by me, let's leave it like that. I'm not going to try to convince you anymore that this is actually doing a disservice to the simulation part.

 

Define "same skill level".
If a pad user is gaming 24/7 and I have a wheel and touch A.C. for a first time ... guess who will be faster.

 

Sorry PAKFA but I don't see any data regarding this.

I am pretty sure gamepad shouldn't give any advantage with the very fast car(Exos) which shoudln't be slided around and requires extra precise inputs on track like Nords which are much harder to perform with the gamepad. Exos have pretty low wheel steering angle which neglects the main advantage of gamepad (faster inputs) when compared to a wheel.
I think the reason why this guy is fast is simple. Practice.

 

I'm talking about good wheel users vs good pad user. If both of them race or do Hotlap the wheel user should be faster, because he's on the input that simulates real car input: wheel and pedals and all that. Again just for the sake of veracity and true to life simulation, pad should have those assists make it slower, not equal or faster than wheel.

Yes, he may be an alien pad user and good for him, but he should not be as fast or close to under 2 seconds with that car to the WR time set by a wheel. It's just to little of a difference considering how unrealistic the pad is simulating driving a car as opposed to how a wheel is simulating driving a car IRL. Again it's a matter of principle that supports the theory of a true simulation which I believe AC is all about. Unless I'm wrong and AC has somehow turned into sim-cade all of the sudden.

Every point that accurately improves the simulation, this being one of them, needs to be taken as such, there should not be any exceptions whatsoever. Like I said, people coming to play a sim and not using the recommended gear should expect to be slower no matter how good they are. The game should not treat them equally with those that use the correct gear, because this sim should value simulation more than fairness and equality between input devices.

This is my opinion and I won't change it, not more than you will too. This is how I see a true racing sim to be, one that does not make this kind of compromises. I guess I'm romanticizing this utopian view too much for what we have right now to even resemble that, so that's my fault, I accept it.

 

Its more of an unfair advantage for drifting then hotlapping.

 

It's not unrealistic to drive with the pad, it's just harder (in some ways), but with enough practise people can post some amazing laptimes.
As said before pad users does't have any hidden assists, kb and mouse users has them.

 

I'm not expert in simulation physics, but this might be one thing that makes 0-force "FB" advantageous. I've been thinking about this subject earlier and I've read that some of the fastest aliens don't use force feedback at all. Doesn't this make the wheel more accurate input method than a gamepad without sacrificing much INPUT SPEED.

That's interesting because physics-wise in real life you turn the wheel and start to load the weight to outside tyres. The wheel will resist that movement, especially without any powersteering assisting you.

So, when you turn-in, there's optimal slip angle you want to achieve. You have to bring energy to the system (car) from your arms (and powersteering -> battery -> engine) to move those steering rods and rotate the front tyres. Having FFB off you get couple of benefits:

- Steer really fast (no travel time lost, when the wheel is turning and when optimal slip angle haven't been achieved).
- Also, that "explosive"-like steering input would require A LOT of ENERGY, which in real life, would have to come from chemical energy stored in driver's muscles.

So this leads to question: Does AC (and other sims out there) simulate these "steering travel times" I should call them, or does this input happen "explosively" when using a pad or a wheel without FFB? Also, this kind of "explosive" input COULD first of all (due to it's massive energy input):
- break steering rods, toothing (these are strong in racing cars, but I'd design them strong ENOUGH and save the weight. Closer we go to instant inputs, same force is delivered in smaller time window = explosive-like energy delivery).
- make the tyres actually lose grip, because the rubber wouldn't have "time to settle" and shift weight/transform the same way it would do with "real travel time".

I don't want to provoke anyone, I'm just writing down the thoughts I've had before so don't get offended.

 

In iracing, wheel users are definitely faster, and all the time the fastest users against gamepad. Maybe not enough people or highly skilled drivers play there with gamepad instead of ffb wheel. Is iracing the best simulation game, because is so hard to drive well with a gamepad as opposed to wheel?

 

Nope, it just takes its simulation aspect more seriously, that's all it means. Good for them, I respect that if that is true.

 

I think you are a bit wrong here. Its obvious that AC isn't all about simulation. rF2 would fit better here. There are many compromises. Also don't forget high grip default setups and presets to attract more newbies from other racing titles. Also fairly good graphics. Devs themselves mentioned that they want to attract more users and not necessary from sim titles.

Also it's not about opinions or principles.
We are talking about different things here.
I am talking about the unfair advantage of different inputs methods. Which clearly isn't be the case in your selected sample on which you based your topic.
While you are talking about principles of what imput methods should be used in a sim racing.

Philosophy vs facts.