Talk about that AI

Today I started a quick race from last place against 12 Ferrari F40 (AI) in Black Cat County. In the first left hand corner many of them crashed (which looked a bit unnatural by the way). It always happened no matter how often I clicked "restart".
Perhaps it was a tyre-problem? I realised that all AI-opponents got street tyres by default whereas I got semi slick tyres by default...
Street tyres are more difficult (less sticky) so shouldn't AI have semi slicks by default? They already have to handle the full physics model, which is difficult enough... Other games are "cheating" by giving the AI easier physics model. But is it really "cheating"? Perhaps it's only a fair compensation if you consider that AI can't be programmed to behave like a real human driver yet?

 

Yeah, theres definitely a tyre-problem with the ai, when you're racing against cars like e30 or the miata they choose the 90s-tyres, but only in the race - in qualifying they take the faster ones...

 

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...crashing-into-wall-at-black-cat-county.35844/

 

Kunos needs to hire someone who knows how to program AI properly. Whoever they're using now has no clue.

 

That would be Stefano Casillo, lead programmer & co-founder of Kunos Simulazioni.

Programming AI isn't exactly easy, you would do well to realise that. When I post about the issues here it's because I want to see them fixed and help understanding where issues are, not to talk down on the dev team...

 

Correct me if I'm worng, but Stefano is still (proudly) self-taught in programming, and a fresh outside expertise coudl help... fining your way around Stefanos code will take that person long tho, as it always does

 

I didn't write that they shouldn't hire someone.

 

Hi All, I happen to say this quite a bit and come from a different perspective as far as sim racing goes. 100% AI is just simply too fast as compared to real life and is quite unrealistic. I think many people pride themselves on being able to beat the AI at 100% and just assume anything below this setting is too low and unrealistic. I've come to find that it's the other way around. Not to beat a dead horse here, but my point is that if you set the AI at a much lower setting and tune your car accordingly, (remove front and rear wing, run hard tires, this is what you would do in real life anyway), you will find that the driving becomes a real challenge and the AI actually perform just fine. Perhaps you will feel slow as compared to other sim racers, but you will have way more fun and enjoy racing the AI more. But hey, my 2 cents, and it's what I have found to work for me. Another part of my point is, that I have done a fair amount of online racing as well and it's seems very strange and totally unrealistic to me that every online race I get into, you have to immediately choose s or ss tires, crank front and rear wing to maximum and make your car whip around the track like a go kart in order to have a chance. This is just no fun for me, and is very unrealistic. So, I get my challenge as I mentioned above. In doing this AC never gets boring and is a total blast. And in this, I see the good job that AC programmers have really done with the AI after all.

Cheers,
protonv5

 

False.

 

Ok, great. I was stating my opinion (as I mentioned) and The Hornbuckler took opportunity to disqualify my post (as usual) What is a fact however is that Hornbucket is a jackass. Other than that, I guess I won't bother stating my perspective. So, have fun!

 

Just because it is your opinion doesn't make it true or correct. It might be your opinion that water isn't wet but that doesn't make it so.

 

AI is actually kinda slow compared to real times on some tracks with some cars (Not that I can match the 100% AI with most cars even when it's being slower). The 911 RSR for example did a sub-1:48 time an Monza with wet conditions this weekend IRL. From what I've seen from testing the GTE and LMP cars at Monza recently the AI with a RSR can't or just about matches that in a qualifying session in the dry. Times on RSR timing are regularly quicker than what I see from the AI. AI has issues with the AI lines on some tracks. It's definitely not black & white "AI is faster" or AI is slower".

 

IMHO 100% in AC HAS to be fast. The game should try to cater to the skill level of all players, alien drivers included. If a player is not fast enough, just use a lower difficulty settings and have fun, don't take away the fun from drivers that are faster. It's the same story with every racing sim, especially ISImotor based ones that have difficulty over 100%. For example 120% Formula V10 AI is pretty unrealistic fast at Interlagos in AMS (also if I'm not mistaken the AI does use unrealistic physics above 100%). But such settings make sure it can cover the needs of all human players. Currently in many cases, the range of AC AI's difficulty simply doesn't do that, as many players are actually faster than 100% AI. So I'm against the idea of slowing down 100% AI in AC.

 

Seeing I have only ever raced the AI at 100% and always found them not fast enough Id say they are far from too fast, at this level they should be very close to the cars potential but even using default setup against them or giving them your setup they arent that fast against any of the better real drivers and I am far from the fastest here.

Here is a comparison in 100% AI vs racing good real drivers I think its fairly clear how much slower the AI are as I can start last in a 32 car field and still win while with a human grid starting front row was a proper battle. Laptimes in same conditions except the league race started at lower grip levels nearly the full human field was faster then the fastest AI car.





To the OP he should learn to discuss without being so insulting, I would love to see him play the piano or code the AI. It really isnt that easy to do look most real people cant even code themselves to be better then the current AI so good luck making AI even better then them. No matter the game AI will always be worse then a good human but most of the time still better then the average ones, there are limits to how much they can process and to code it in a way that can think and plan moves beyond simply running a good hotlap pace I cant see happening in a very long time.

 

Definitely good stuff here to discuss. But I think the essence of what I'm saying is not being fully understood. My point is not only that I think the AI is just too fast, I think more than that, it is not to scale. This is a bit difficult to understand what I'm saying here. It's not just a matter of lap times. It's how the car get's around the track in said time. I mean obviously Assetto is simulating time x distance x performance etc. It looks the same as compared to a video but obviously it's not. Think about this: If a 911 RSR driver wants to set fast lap times around say Monza, he has to set up his car for Monza. He's faced with a tradeoff of top speed vs cornering speed. Tire life vs grip etc. None of this seems to really come into account when playing Assetto though. Especially when playing online. It's always set maximum wing, soft tires. Really? When racing online it seems they always go for maximum grip through maximum downforce and softest tires as possible. This is not realistic. So I'm saying, in the translation between real vs sim, something is missed here. Perhaps it's a time x distance issue. That's all it would take for this to be off. Now some know what I'm talking about having driven many sims over the years. I remember games where every lap and how you drove it was taken into account as to how you fared over the length of the race. Need to do 10 laps with soft tires? Good luck. It wasn't just go as fast as possible every lap. If you do, you win. That's what's happening here in Assetto. This is not realistic. Something is obviously not right anyway. Because we can all see that. To make the AI faster still so that they can keep up with you if you can beat them at 100% is not the answer. It already seems alien to me the way I'm go-karting around the track in a 911 or 488 or whatever, whipping through the corners. The cars handle more like F1 cars. at these speeds. This is my point. The game is allowing you to dial in more 'simulated' wing to get more grip, softer tires to get more grip etc. I think this is not matching reality. If maximum rear wing on say the 911 RSR 2017 = Still a fair amount of oversteer making you have to drive accordingly, then suddenly the AI are harder to beat at their present ability. This is my point. But you can crank in so much wing that makes the car a go kart and the AI can't keep up. Like I've said earlier, things seem far more realistic when racing the AI at a much lower setting. Not just as far as lap times! But in how you are having to drive vs the AI. When you set your car up with less wing, harder tires, you begin to experience the real struggle as you would in a real race car. My 2 cents

 

I went to the supermarket today, asked for a couple of experts in AI in racing games.. they said they are out of stock lol, I'll go again next week.. perhaps I should try at the wet market.

 

@protonv5 So you mean setups and different tyre choices are not realistic? Interesting.

The AI doesn't adjust most setup choices themselves, yes, but you can make them use a specific setup by saving your setup named as ai_default in the track folder you race on.

 

Where did I say different tire choices is unrealistic? If I meant that I would have said "Choosing different tires is unrealistic." Awesome.
Supermarket joke= Don't get it.
Let the hate flow though you= Don't get it.
Have fun guys, thanks for letting me express my opinion.
I love Assetto. But thankfully the AI is adjustable. If I had to race at 100% and go kart around; if that's all there was I would not enjoy it at all.

 

Read what you wrote. You essentially said the setups in AC are unrealistic, that people have the choice to setup their car however they want even if it's not optimal is unrealistic. You insinuate that the sim doesn't simulate it realistically and full wing and softest tyres are always the way to go and favours those that don't set up their cars how you think is "realistic".

Maybe drive races more than five laps long, that would be my recommendation for you. Because full wing and softest tyre setups very much have an effect and tyre wear is certainly present in the sim...