Steering input AC & real life

Yes I agree. I think that it is actually combination of many various little details that are not exactly like IRL in simulation. But track grip being too "flat" may really be a big factor in this. So the slip remain rather similar everywhere. It would be interesting to know how dry grip can variate IRL on the track, how it would be distributed. Too bad you can't laserscan the grip, or can you ? In dry track it should be like in wet track, but reversed, and lower amplitude, I think. So those perfect slip angles might vary a lot more probably.

I also sometimes feel like in AC unsprung masses may lack some play, maybe tires are damping too perfectly. But we don't see tires flex, so hard to judge. Can't see car bouncing on tire, or dipping down on a corner a lot because tire would get squeezed a lot. And even when it is going to be visible in ACC, it is probably not going to be 1:1 with physical flex. I wonder. Also only one type of car, not that much to examine.

By the way, my Goodwood mod has separated physical mesh fragments. For example in wet the very hardest turning zone is smoothest so extremely slippery. But in dry version that same part has a little bit more grip than most of the track, and yet you can see Andy steering totally linearly in the comparison video, no fishing, almost no corrections. Car just does it perfectly. This is very much down to experience and skill, style, but still....

 

Yeah the GT40 seems to have very direct steering without the need for much input (unless you are really aggressive with the throttle perhaps) I'm sure those chunky tyres must be a factor. The video I made on the wet version has a lot more steering input but I was kind of faking it again (trying to be Kenny.)

I remember when we were testing the Lola mod I kept complaining the steering was too direct in comparison to real life footage and there was some value aphidgod was tweaking to make the steering less sensitive but I cant remember what it was called (I still wish it was a bit less direct.)

 

I think we really should examine precise examples of real life, like if correction at 0:43 IRL video was correction because car slightly twitched under coasting, or car turned in better than driver expected so he had to turn less for a moment ? I can't understand.



I think dropping whole video, and saying - "there are differences" is very difficult to discuss.

By the way, I was trying to find some patterns, but I can't. I watched Jim Pace onboards, he is fishing grip in Lola at RoadAmerica, in GT40 at VIR, but he doesn't in M8 at Road Atlanta. Then I watched Mclaren M8 onboard of Andy Newall at Silverstone, and he does fish for grip... Maybe thats more down to cars setup than drivers style.

 

The car over steered at 0:43 so he made a correction. In the game the car kept its balance. It could be the irl setup, the track differences, tyres condition, or just how he approached the corner that made the car oversteer.

 

I have driven my beast Opel Omega 2.2. today. Not anything close to racing track stuff lol But I tried to pay attention to what I do. And I was doing those sawing steering moves when I was avoiding manholes in one street. Feeling is maybe like if you can't do super small steering inputs, and if you want to make sudden little turn, then you have to twitch the steering wheel a couple of times. Instead of making one direct small movement, I did few little steering inputs steer-center-steer-center-steer-center. Maybe it could be something related with tire rubber elasticity, or the way tire responds to very little steering inputs, I don't even know, just did it.

@Quffy Yeah perhaps it just twitched while engine braking and making a sharp turn. But it is still difficult to tell IMO

 

Out of curiosity I tryed the GT40 at Goodwood, with about 95% grip, quite alive I would say

 

Unless our reality is already a simulation ; -)

 

I think the comparison videos might look a little numb when compared to just driving like your video because I'm trying to replicate someone elses lap time, line, shifts, mistakes etc. so could be the steering looks unnatural in some of my comparison videos because... well it is. It is unnatural driving

I think maybe I should ignore the videos. A seperate thing is I don't think I do much sawing/fishing however you want to call it in the sim but see it often IRL, I need to pay attention to this as I drive in AC in the near future and see if I can catch myself doing it. I might try turning gyro back on again and possibly turning my FFB up a bit (gain is at 100 but per car is normally quite low, I can't go too high on a wheel stand though or the stand will start revolving around the wheel when I hold it steady )

baronesbc do you use gyro? If so I'm going to convince myself I will become super alien on the brakes like you if I turn it on

 

Don't use too much damping for Gyro then I use less than half, and my rig is table

By the way, I have used all holy sims today: AC, AMS, iR, rF2. Seems like only rF2 has this fishing thing, with cars that have tires with large sidewalls I think. For example Lola aka howston, has a lot of it. It is a bit like tiny delay between when you turn and when the car responds, so it is a little more difficult to turn in the right moment, and often have to do slight corrections in mid turn, also it almost seems that after a while car starts turning in a little more (too much) than at the beginning and also have to adjust a little, but maybe I'm just trippin'

 

Check out 25:37, sawing the wheel all the way I really thin that must have to do a lot with tires response to steering, the way they flex, also the way suspension is, car is waving all the time. It is like never all four wheels are planted at the same time. I think the wheel is not planted yet if thread grips, but tire flexes and rim with a hub is still not turning. I think that may be adding to this sawing, steering imprecision. It is always none, two, or three, perhaps all four grips only for short periods when going straight.

 

Not at the moment, I used it in the past but at some point it became a bit weird expecially on some cars and disabled it. I should try it again some day.

 

Watching the video you realize how much road the simulators have to do yet, all of them eh not just AC.

 

True. I think that rF2 is missing the least. But the downside is that it is quite a mess overall, still.

 

I give Studio 397 a 100% meh rating for their choice of content so far.

 

It has T70 though

 

Yeah really cool to have that as an offical car and the old F3 cars as well but they were all ISI

 

They were, and still are. Obviously S397 does the same with rF2, what Kunos does with ACC, and if it works out there will be "those other cars" too. I am sure. Well, if it works out.

My complaints on handling in rF2 are that some cars in some cases seems too easily to loose stability, also too easily gain flatspots and very heavy very annoying on FFB flatspots. In AC opposite - too hard to loose control in some situations, and seems like tires are too durable for flatspots. Stability thing IMO rF2 is closer to truth and more stuff is acting on a car. Flatspots should be somewhere in middle between AC and rF2, I think. Well flatspots and braking is not the subject of this thread. But stability is the main thing for this thread, you work with a car only as much as it is asking.

IMO you only really drive a car in AC when you really push it, thats why I don't understand cruising thing in AC. In rF2 you drive the car soon after you start driving in sport mode. Worth to mention that I have a lot more experience in AC, I can take any car in AC and be consistently fast in a few laps, so it might be not totaly fair to say that AC is a lot less challenging under the limit of what the car can do.

 

The general rule in racing for any input has always been “smooth is fast” corrections are exactly that, means there is either an issue with the car or the driver

 

I disagree and think you use that mantra in the wrong context. The car should travel in smooth fashion but that could mean you need to use very abrupt inputs.

Even Senna sometimes looked like he had a seizure at the wheel while he was known to make his cars dance around the track smooth and very fast.

It's been well explained in here why this fishing is necessary at times.