Change gears without using the clutch

I guess this have been talked about many times here but I couldn't find what I was looking for in a single simple answer/thread while searching.

Just installed my new T300 Ferrari Integral Alcantara Edition which came with the T3PA pedales. Have used a DFGT before but wanted a new wheel and pedales with a clutch. I do not own a H-pattern shifter.

To my question.
Should I be able to change gear in a Maserati 250F 12C (and F40) without pressing the clutch (using the paddles on the wheel)? If I drive the car with throttle blip (TB) ON and auto clutch (AC) OFF I can change gear "in the same way" as with my DFGT and TB & AC on. I thought it would be harder/impossible to change gear without pressing the clutch if you drive with AC off. TB off however makes a huge difference, something new to practice.

Please explain how it works for a casual gamer like me .

Also if someone has the time it would be nice to have a list ~like:
F40
Clutch pedal
H Patterna
You have to TB
Can (not?) change gear without pressing the clutch.

Yellow Bird
Clutch Pedal
H Patterna
You have to TB
Can (not?) change gear without pressing the clutch.

LaF
No Clutch
Paddles
Auto Blip.

Thanks
/AG

 

This is what happens in a real car, and I would not advice doing this too much

Say you're accelerating in 3rd gear, you can disengage the gear by simply putting it in neutral (without using the clutch). The revs drop, so when you put it in 4th, the gearlever will go into 4th whenever the gears match speed. If the speeds don't match you will get grinding (not of the gears, but actually from the gear selector AFAIK).

Say you're braking in 4th gear, you can again disengage the gear without using the clutch, but when you want to put it in 3rd, the engine revs don't match the gearbox speed (because, for example, 100 km/h in 4th will be around 4k revs, in 3rd this will be 5k, but when disengaging the revs drop). To engage 3rd without a clutch you will need to blip the throttle to get the speeds to match again, and it will engage.


In game this is perfectly possible aswell and works exactly the same. Atleast, with an H-Shifter (in manual cars that have an H-pattern gearbox and manual clutch). I can imagine paddles will be different because an H-shifter keeps pressing the button when shifting (IRL this would be "keep pressing the gear lever"), and a paddle will only press it once. Maybe it works fine when you hold the paddle a bit longer.

The LaFerrari is a different car alltogether, since it has auto blip, auto clutch, etc, IIRC. The computer inside does all the work for you when you shift.

 

I have the same wheel and the H-Shifter for 2 month now. Used the T3PA pedals but upgraded my frex pedals with a clutch now cause the Thrustmaster pedals are not that good compared.

if u don´t have an H-Shifter u can change gear also if autoclutch is disabled. The only difference is, that the engine stalls if u do not shift to neutral. With autoclutch it press the clutch automatically if u are in first gear and stop.

Up and downshifts are almost the same as if u have a car with sequential gearbox.

If u have a H-shifter, gear change only works good if clutch is pressed. otherwise if rmp does not match, u got a gear grinding noise and the gearbox get damadged.

For the best feeling i suggest to buy a h-shifter! I cannot drive h-shifted cars without it, even if it needs a lot of practice!

 

Ok, tanks.

I do know how it works IRL, rev matching and everything, both in cars and on motorbikes. However what I dont understand is how it works in the game, maybe it has something to do with what you wrote here "I can imagine paddles will be different because an H-shifter keeps pressing the button when shifting". As it is now it feels like I dont need the clutch at all, just rev match (manualy or with TB on) and then change gear.

I would like my pabbles to work as a manual gearbox going from 1-2 2-3 (like the shifter on a motorbike, press clutch, rev match, change gear)... I know this might turn ac into an arcade but....
If this is impossible I'l just have to live with it or consider the TH8.

What happes when you change gear with an H-pattern in the game without pressing the clutch? Can you miss a gear like that?

 

u can use your padles on the wheel like Formula1 shifting. Even if autoclutch is off, u can shift through gears like a sequential gearbox, but u have to lift throttle when shifting and blip when downshift not to have too much engine brake on the tires. There is no missshift or gear grinding noise/damadge gearbox when using paddles as shifter.

 

I might have misunderstood you then. My guess is that you already can if you want?

Same as in real life If the revs don't match it won't engage.

Driving H-shifter with clutch on cars that have it IRL is definately much nicer than paddles I reckon. Sadly the TH8A is about the same price as a second hand G27 :/


EDIT:

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

 

Fonsecker, thanks for the info, you confirmed what NightEye suspected.

I really tried to miss a gear without pressing the clutch but was not able to do it. Rev match (lock up rear wheels on downshifts or scream the engine) works perfect but I am missing the grinding noises from the synchronisation rings that I get when I (by accident) change gear in my V70 without using the clutch. Maybe I'll ask Sata for an H-shifter...

On a side note, 20 years ago I used to practice catching slides on my DT50 by driving on wet grass and changing from 3-1 way to fast , way more fun and scarier on a bike then in a car. You have to be really quick grabbing the clutch again or you are on your ***. The practice has helped my a couple of times when I drive my VN800 in slippery conditions.

/AG

 

Just thought I would jump in here and ask something I've always wondered about. Cars that have a sequential gear stick (for example the 458 GT2) do they have a clutch? I.e. does the driver have to use the clutch when shifting up and down with the sequential stick?

 

yes. almost all racing cars have a clutch. u need it if u start driving. Cars like the old 997 Porsche GT3 Cup car have a sequential gearbox, but no auto blip function so u need to press the clutch and blip throttle when shift down. (don´t know how it is on the 458 GT2)

 

With a sequential stick or paddle shifter you still have a clutch, you just don´t need it for shifting, as long as you unload the gearbox for the milliseconds where the gear is changed. Unloading happens by a short throttle blip or ignition cut, automated with GT3 cars for example. You still need the clutch to launch the car from standstill.

Just saw Fonseckers post, absolutely right. With older cars the unloading is not automatically initiated.

With a standard normal gearbox you have synchronization, which brings the free spinning wheels to the same speed as the shaft as soon as you move the synchronizer over. The gear is than engaged while both components have about the same speed, and it can only be engaged with a very low speed difference. Therefore you need to completely unload the drivetrain with the clutch and than slowly engange the gear over the synchronization.
Sequential- or Dog-gearboxes don´t use synchronization at all, as the gear can be engaged while the shaft and the engaging unit move at different speeds. They use dog-clutches to allow this. Motorcycle transmission usually work the same way, I can operate my Kawasaki ZR-7´s gearbox fully without clutch except for the launch, a slight flick on the throttle, adding throttle for downshifting or taking it down for upshifting, lets me engage the next gear with zero effort. The flick and shifting together is taking about 200ms for me as an untrained rider (Not a professional motorbike racer).

 

Very comprehensive answer, thank you.

 

Saw Mr.Mugels post and edited my post forgot about the Dog-gearboxes.
My Kawasaki VN800 has a sequential shifter but does not like to be shifted without using the clutch.

It depends on the car/motorbike. I know that some cars (rallycars IIRC) can handle just smashing in the gears without using the clutch since it takes to long time using the clutch. In sweden we have something called Cross-växla, that is when you just stomp on the gear lever on your motocross and then goes home rebuilding the gearbox once in a while.

Electronic shifting cars also have a clutch (AFAIK). When you press the button an electric motor/hydraulics opens the clutch and changes the gear.
It is just a matter of where you place the electronic switches. As an example you can take the switches behind the paddles on your LaFerrari and place them on a stick in the middle of the car.
Or why not make a electronic h-patten, press button 5 and the car selects 5th gear...

So it is more a question of, is it electronic shifting vs mechanical/manual vs something in the middle. Sequential, h-pattern or paddles (electronic sequential) has "more" to to with the user interface then with the actual mechanics, if you exaggerate a bit.

@Aristotelis, @Lord Kunos what is your thoughts about this "There is no missshift or gear grinding noise/damadge gearbox when using paddles as shifter"? Could it be implemented? Absolutley no dealbreaker for me, just curious.
/AG

 

Haha yep, so much fun on bikes


It would be good to have miss shifts when using paddles and no auto clutch being implemented.

 

Gruß vom Getriebe …