Did he defend well (min 00:40)?

Ok. I see that sort of stuff as weak *** moves any loser could do...if he had been able to hold his line and allow Kimi and Sergio a car width or outbrake them so bad they would have been 3/4 car length behind at the exit then it would have been super strong move...but that is just weak...they touch front wheel to front wheel and there is no space for the outside car to take the corner. I don't understand how that can be seen as strong.

As always in these kind of discussions no one will ever change his mind or admit it if he does so it quickly starts getting silly exchanging. Enjoy the race this week end everyone !

 

@PhilS13 Oh I haven't seen that they touched, damn it was such a tiny touch. Faulty from Verstappen indeed, but not so horrible. I think Alonso exiting from pits were worse. Or T1 from Verstappen, where he spoiled it for both Ferrari's.

I guess, it is true, no one will change mind about theese situations as it was so much on the edge, that it is right and wrong at the same time.

Excited for Monza race, hopefully exciting race, and without dirty situations. If it is possible.

 

this pretty much sums it up:

IMHO, If you are reacting to car behind you - you are blocking

 

I think Mad Max is playing online sim racing much much more time than can be acceptable .-)))

The 1st turn incident is a race incident. May be we can discuss if it's neccesary to risk his whole race at first turn first lap, but it's up to him to learn that.

But, his moves at Les Combes against Kimi and Sergio are against the rules. He never kept his line and never leaves room to the outside car, even he made contact with Sergio. Watch the onboard camera from Verstappen's car and you can see he went off track on the outside on Kimi's move when clearly he needed to stick to the inside. Inacceptable IMHO, and totally out from current F1 rules. If the rule is right or not is another discussion, but it's as it is now and all drivers have to stick with it.

There where other two times which VES went off track, returning to the track in a dangerous way, which is penalized by current F1 ruleset also, and seems like the stewards doesn't care. Both in the first lap: He did cut Radillion, and in the same lap, Pouhon's exit, by going a lot wide on the outside and returning to the track in at least a questionable way.

The older videos posted on this thread were a great example of very good and clean racecraft, there is nothing related to Max's dangerous and out of the rules behaviour at Spa's race last weekend on those videos to try to claim his racecraft is good or well behaved.

What worry most to me is he seems to be convinced he's right, even saying his move on Kemmel was because he was mad against Kimi because the 1st turn incident. Being in anger at 350 kph is really dangerous. He needs somebody train him about anger management too.

 

He is a hotspur of 19 years. What do you guys want, a car administrator that brings the car safe in to the pit to maintain race strategy or a guy with balls who always wants to win? I would be concerned if a 19 year-old guy that is driving F1 would not stay with his opinion on the matter you mentioned. One should always ask himself, why that guys are sitting in a F1 car and not "me" or "you". It's not only about reaction and car mastery, it's about pressing your arse together when others, including "me" and "you" **** your pants and hit the boring pedal (as the car administrators do not even have to clutch any more, you guys know which pedal I mean). A 19-year old F1-driver HAS to be that way. If he was a reason- and responsible man he would study law or economics.

 

I like Max, but the fact that he didn't get a single penalty at Belgium just made F1 look ridiculous.

 

Officially this was called a racing incident? Or did the race director issue penalties?

I think this comes down to a racing incident. That corner always, always has someone diving down the inside. Kimi was blocked in, Vettel assumed Kimi would give room but didn't know Max was there. And Max was diving because he was only one of a few drivers to start on super softs. He needed to get a great start. which didn't occur so he within the rules dove into the corner. Racing incident is what I would put it down to.

 

I don't understand people defending Max here. I do not watch modern F1 and have no favorites there, so hopefully I can maintain a neutral look at these accidents. He lost the start, got passed by Kimi, yet made that frantic dive-bomb into T1 with zero hope of safely navigating it. He was willfully going 3-wide into the corner but his exit line was barely good for two. Could've been your typical T1 Spa public server wreck if there was another hot-shot there instead of Kimi. T1 hero, check.
Then at Les Combes there's a remake of T1, he was passed fair and square but he dive-bombed again and this time he couldn't even make the turn properly himself, let alone leave enough space for Kimi. Dive-bomber, check.
Dangerous move on Kemmel is just the icing on the cake. Yes, you can make one defensive move, but doing it in the middle of a long straight so that the other party has to brake to avoid a collision is usually called blocking. Blocker, check.
I'd say that only the last one could be considered a racing incident, because it looked like he did try to leave space but understeered to the second apex of Les Combes.
He might be a young person grinding his way up, but something's telling me that he's never gonna be one of the greatest, he has no class.

 

Well I'm Dutch and although there is a crazy Max-hype in the Netherlands, I consider myself as a pretty neutral F1 fan. I think that this is the weakest race of is F1 career (Well, maybe next to Monaco).
I have to say that T1 was quite optimistic, but I consider that as a racingincident myself. He had a bad start and made a split second move. It was tight, but I think that a lot of drivers would have made the same choice. Ofcourse Vettel couldn't see him and turned in and Raikkonen had nowhere to go. Unfortunate, but with big consequences.
Les Combes was too aggressive for my taste. Verstappens moves were just too desperate and nowhere near the sleek braking-maneuvers we are used from him. He certainly should have been warned during the race for that.
Kemmel-straight. Well... Looking at the video. I think the timing is everything. I think that if he timed the move a little bit earlier, he could have broke kimi's momentum with putting kimi in such an awkward position. Just the difference of brilliant defending (don't forget his moves against Rosberg in Montreal) and desperate and even dangerous defensive driving.

All in all it was a bad race on his behalf. Maybe the pressure from all the Dutch and Belgian fans was just too much. Eventhough we have to cut him some slack. He is 18, he has a lot of talent and potential. I hate it when people call him the next Prost,Senna,Schumacher. Just give him some time and might be one of those legends one day.
At the otherside, I can't stand Villeneuve. Since day one he complains about Verstappen, he didn't even give him a chance. And than, the Grand Prix at Catalunya. It was a historic day for us Dutchies, finally a competitive F1 driver from our country (Ok, and a little bit from Belgium). Ofcourse he was lucky with the crash of those Mercs and yes he had the better strategy, but he won. And in F1 everything can happen. But ofcourse Villeneuve had to complain about the fact that Ricciardo was robbed from a victory.
And I can't understand what Lauda said. Every race he praises Verstappen. Well, Verstappen has a bad race at Spa and you really have to say this? I usually like the cut-throat judgement of this F1 legend, but he went too far. The Mercedes F1 team isn't the best example this year of how it should be done.

Long story short. Young driver. He has to learn and will be stupid sometimes. He is a human after all. But with the great battle between him and Ricciardo, you cant deny the fact that he deserves his place at Red Bull Racing. Sainz and Kvyat are good drivers, but they aren't as far as Verstappen.

 

Its in the details, before kimi tryed his move at 1:30, Ves was already indicating by fine movements he was going to block. Kimi should have done a fake move and then go to the left. There is nothing Ves then could have done to block except breaking the rules (move twice to/from racing line on one straight/section), something he has not yet done. This is racing like they did in the past. Not the long queue/train style people have gotten used to in the past 10 years were drivers were politely waved past.

Also not to mention previous attempt of Kimi to pass Ves, Ves also moved to the right, Kimi could have expected Ves would be defending again, but he was expecting to be let be passed and to get a friendly gesture to carry on and blast past his competitor. So it was not weaving, Hulkenberg gave a really good demo of weaving down the kemmel straight to Alonso, i was really REALLY surprised he did not get a stop/go penalty.


Kimi has always been complaining about Ves, even last year at Austria practice were he was really in the way of Ves because he was way slower in the rain (TR vs Ferrari!) so Ves passed him like he was a rookie. Kimi complain. In hugary this year he tried to overtake Ves while Ves was already steering into the corner at a corner not suitable for overtaking, duh you loose parts when you try that....


The move at 58 seconds is bit over the limit, but apparently some drivers, Hamilton especially, are allowed to do that. So most moves of Ves are really good, i see only one over the limit, but that particular moved is apparently allowed (although personally i think it should not be allowed, but i am a nobody )

 

I think you lost the point here. With anger, he's acting like the wrecklers in online sim racing who can't stand their own frustration, with the difference he's driving in anger for real and at a speed which can hurt him or somebody else. He's 19, it's ok, but he has to learn to accept the rulebook, and proper racecraft, being in anger or not.

Max has a lot of potential, but He has a lot to learn too, and with his attitude, permisive stewarding and everybody dismissing his faults because he's 19 years old, I still think he's not going to learn a lot from his mistakes.