Spec-reductions/boost for fair races with different streetscars

Hi.

I just wanted to suggest a system that makes it possible, too have races with a variety of streetcars, where every car has a chance to win.
Like in Forza, I hope that the car gets different ratings (example: max. Speed/acceleration/handling [suspension/aerodynamic/speed and controllability ind corners] /brakes) and maybe some (automatic?) tuning (for example a slight boost/reduction of PS, breaks, aerodynamics) ONLY for the purpose of an even field and/or a few classes where the cars mostly fit in.

I think its important, cause we get a huge amount of great cars, but the specs varie much and I think we would loose much potential, if everyone can just drive with the same model or some just dont have a chance to win.

I personally arent a big fan of Cup-races and if I drive solo with a streetcar, I really need a track that is new and in an interesting place, besides the regular circuits.
Example from an other post from me:
The street at 4:50


Just mention this, so people understand, why I think my suggestion is important for me, at least.

 

I respect your opinion but I hope that this will never be implemented.
This is a simulator, not a game. If we wanted balance but not real performance we already have a lot of games. Besides, with just the few cars we have now its already possible to do some interesting races with diferent models, imagine with full list and later with some addon cars.

 

If i get it right you want that car is exactly like in reality. But there are allready the step's in AC (see street-BMW's) and cars like in the GT2-series (example Ferrari 458/458 GT2) arent just the basic streetcar with the GT2-tech build in, but there is something called Homologation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation_(motorsport)
and this has the purpose of my suggestion, cause it makes fair competition possible in the first place, cause even smaller differences in performance can make a car obsolete and you not able to win, after all the is no competition, you know, like in real racing. And the differences from the street cars a quite high.
In reality street cars arent build for racing or a fair competition, but to drive solo, normaly within the lawrestrictments and the police doesnt let you drive with race-tires, at least not in my country.
If someone challenges me for a race with a car with 100kg less weight and 100ps more and I and the other person are equally talented in driving, there isnt much sense to even try it.

Conclusion: If this is a racing-sim, there should be a homoligation, if there are different cars involved. Just throw different models in a race without homoligation is rather "gamy". Besides: AC stays a game and regarding some aspects the realism is questioned by some people and it will never be 100% like reality.
And like I have allready written, you can allready make changes on your car, that make it not like in reality, so out of the box.
And in reality the use of homolgation isnt questioned, cause it isnt the "real car" anymore, if someone refuses the homoligation they simply can **** off and drive alone, at least in cases like the FIA GT2.

BTW: This whole "this is a sim" "this is not game" "this is serious, for adult persons, with high demands sitting on a computer" is almost ridicilious, even it would be an argument. I dont get this pedantery (same for some reactions about fantasy-tracks), besides you always can drive the cars with the default-setup (and without semi-slicks!). You dont get afterburners on the roof and aliens hunt you during a race. "These" are things I dont expect from a racing simulator, besides arcade-physics and in opposite to homoligation and realistic physics.

Edit: Ah! If you simulate physics, you also can simulate homoligation.

 

So, BoP.. right, i want it to

Sent from my bq Edison using Tapatalk

 

I wrote that in the "vote for car brands"-.thread.

" "sirnicolai said:
Give me Race cars ! More open wheelers please !!
Street cars and modified street cars are fun, but once you use a race car, especially the open wheelers, everything else feels slow and heavy."

Another point I agree with. Regarding street cars I would like the realistic simulation of "put the unnecessary **** out of the car and put the some basics things like spoilers on it". Forza probably didnt makes it realistic.
Sadly not from every car you like/would like is a race-version, which is A stripped from things you dont need in a race, B tuned with things you better have and C 1 or more homologation-systems, to keep the field fair.
I love the Paganis, but there is only the very first Zonda as a racing car, dont know which series he was in.
And usually there arent much streetcars with nearly identical specs"

Thats probably too much to ask from Indie-/smaller dev-team, but because street-cars are so different and the amount of cars that have a real raceversion is fairly limited, I would really wish for a realistic sim, that makes it possible to create fair fields or even better a homologation-"simulation", so we can make race-cars from our favorite
street-cars, like a Pagani Hyuria/Zonda, Lambo Avent. or Aston Martin Vanquish, which are often too expensive in reality (for sim-fanatics you can simulate being rich too ), which is the sad reason the FIA GT1 doesnt exist anymore, where you had race-versions of the Murcielago, Maserati MC12 and if it would exist, could have Paganis etc..

That isnt less realistic then pretending to race while actually playing (sim-game).

Besides sirnicolai is right, many supercars today are far to heavy, without it would be necessary, at least for racetrack-only-use.

Sorry that i expand this rather special topic, but it really would be a dream of me to have either real raceversions of cars like the Hyuara, Ferrari F12/LaFerrari and many others, to recreate them in a sim or to just make them based on the street-version and characterstic of GT1/2/3-cars.

 

If you think you have valid arguments, please use them. After all this is a suggestions sub-forum and I'm sure they are all welcome.
But next time don't put words on my mouth that I didn't say. I never said that a simulator is more serious than a game and I also never said that simulators are for adult persons with high demands.
And finaly try to respect other people opinion. Calling them pedantic just because you not share their opinion is not the best way to be taken serious.

 

I allready used myarguments, cause there are allready tuning-setups (steps) that change the car.
As i wrote, the physics arent real, they are simulated and homoligation is real and can be used in reality AND a game, so something you can simulate, so recreate in a virtual environment. Its no argument, that this is a simulator.

You wrote:

Why you mention its a sim and not a game then? You do like you have arguments. You actually dont, cause like often in sim-cases, people just cant see what else can be simulated/be realistic, then the physics, tracks, weather and cars. You can simulate homoligation and other things. Its ****in REAL. Same for non-race-circuits, I can ask the government to make a race on a specific public street. Its realistic.

If, for example, Forza archives a (suboptimal) system to make it possible to make different streetcars competitive so its makes ****in sense to drive against them with a sense for everyone to win, its simply superior to AC in THIS regard, cause you can make this in reality too.
Why ****in bother about street cars, if you can only make cup-races or races with cars that have to chance to win, or drive solo.
Sometimes reality is limitating simply cause the missing money/damage for the environemnt, which hasnt to be the case in a game.

You can have a different opinion but dont do like you would be right and im wrong.

 

this why i always like the Race 07 series with thier race spec racing cars. Stock cars being upgraded to race each other can leave a massive unbalance in performance.

 

Yupp, sadly it seems to be pretty damn hard to develop a system that makes the car even AND this on every track. There are too many properties, that influence each other in combination with the track. In Forza it often worked but sometimes doesnt.
Anyway it never was perfect and usually there where 1 or 2 clearly prefered cars you didnt get a chance against with others. Over 400 cars and in a race everyone drives the same.
Its pretty sad if you get a huge amount of cars but you have to choose between the chance to win or an interesting field of various cars.

Without such a system, I hope they concentrate on race-cars, even I like streetcars/some diversion.
I looove this "fights" between different manufacturs/models. The drivers remain mostly faceless and not really present, mostly.

 

150% agree thats where i think simbins race cars will trump AC, as so many one make series or mixed series were available each very fun to be in.

i was hoping ac would have much more race cars than road cars, thats were gran turismo gets boring very boring

How about a weight reduction, if say one modded car is much more powerful..... would that work?

 

So what you actually want is a chassis with different bodies, kinda like a RC car. Only thing changing is appearance!
And you consider THAT realistic??

 

errr theres lots of race series that are one model/engine cars, and theyre much more exciting than the precession that is f1 atm!!!

 

Why? In the GT2 many other series for example, there often different types of engines/breaks/transmissions etc,, different details like the wheelbase and the appearance matters, not only cause the looks, but cause the aerodynamics, which is why the Maserati in the GT1 got a smaller rearwing, cause the hull was superior to all the other cars regarding aero.
If you read a bout homoligation you get an idea, how with different kinds of rules and restrictions you take complitly different cars more or less competitive, without they become exactly the same and indeed handle quite different. This is no factor in developing a streetcar, at least in the most cases.

The point is, even in the GT2 there are differences, BUT in Forza the system is far from a good homoligation.
Homolgation isnt an easy thing, especially if the cars are very different. But the level of Forza would be better then nothing, I think.
The problem doesnt lie in realism but the effort for a good simulation of homoligation.

Like i said, I love a varied field, not only because the looks, but different car-characteristics.

Anyway, it becomes tedious to discuss this, its still just a suggestion and I dont want to convince every buyer of AC, nor Kunos, cause they probably do what they can and think is resonable.
For street cars and fantasy tracks I could still buy another game, hopefully with similar or even better physics, anyway.

 

ill tell anyone this and will argue to i die, but a grid of 20 1 spec caterhams, will be more fun and eventful to watch than the current f1 grid, or any mixed class grid for that matter.

 

Not for it personally.
To 'tune' a Fiat 500 to race against a Ferrari 458 GT2 would be just silly IMHO. That's the main reason I stay away from games such as NFS etc that do have that. I believe the modding tool may allow for something like this (I'm not certain) but if it's allowed on MP then that's a deal breaker for me.
It will be difficult enough trying to organize fair/realistic MP events with the cars we will have available, without throwing this into the equation too.

 

imo i think they MUST Stay away from this style of upgrade to win style of racing ive seen for many years on GT and forza... IF AC were to do this , i would simply go back to race 07.. Its the reason i went to PC racing!!!

 

Homologation or a ratingsystem is my suggestion. This has nothing to do with tuning ala Fast and the Furious or NFS. A 458 GT2 is a "tuned/not stock Ferrari 458 and that has its reasons.
I never mentionend anything about making the Abart competitive with a GT-car.

Its simply about cars that are not to far off performancewise and maybe the same typ (GT, sportscar, supercar, roadstar, trackday), but that still are still too different for a fair field get little corrections so 2-4 similiar supercars for example get closer PS and weightwise,maybe regarding brakes, aero and suspension, too.

So overall you get a few groups of different car-typs, that can be race against each other.

 

Without that rating upgrade system the chances for some cars to win are even much lower. Upgrade to win? No, if you do nothing its just doing nothing nd dont have chance.

Anyway, seems like most consider Kunos doesnt have the abilitys to do that in the right way, if I look at some rather allergic-reactions. Maybe they are right, I dont know.
Maybe one day a sim will combine all the strengths from the different games we have now.

 

how about being able to put on restrictions on cars in the setup? It's in lfs and it works great. 3 competitive gtr's in one league

 

Yeah. Or simply a second setup made my Kunos that puts 2 or more cars in a group, that allready arent to far away from each other, with more or less the same potential to win.
You then can activate it on the server/lobby, depending what people wish. All cars like fresh from the manufacturer or competitive.
Wouldnt be magic i guess.