Why Monza is so rarely used online ?

In real life, they all drive like in the video VallinKenel posted above. Or like Max in the video i posted. No messing around, straight to business. Of course, it's a bit easier doing that in real life, because you don't have - a single screen with 16:9, and a very narrow FOV, warping and lagging cars, or ghost contacts. Of course, you'll have to be more cautious in a sim. It's still not necessary to brake 50 metres early in turn 1, because you think your tires are so cold that you have to take the turn with 20 or 30 km/h less than you'd normally do. Classic misjudgment from most.

 

I guess my return to sim-racing is delayed then, it seems attitudes are still in the dark ages and most folks think they are on a par with the best

 

350 plus races in the official service in iRacing, and i never got a warning. *shrugs* Also note that i mentioned above that you can't race like that in sims, because of single screen, field of view, and ghost contacts and warps. I still think people are overly cautious in the first corners of a race, and that being overly cautious is dangerous. If you want to argue with "get real", then i'd say that being that cautious isn't real at all, as pictures from real motorsport tell. And not being overly cautious in the first corners doesn't mean that i notoriously wreck out other drivers. Actually, in 99% of the cases, i make up places, and still don't wreck somebody, simply because it isn't that difficult to overtake without wrecking someone in the process.

 

Professional race is another thing. Every one there is professional, so, every one is one the same pace. If the cars are equal, you will see only 1 second of difference from pole to 20th on grid.

On servers is different, there are very slow drivers, the paces are different, so, it is the same for braking points. And not necessary the slowest drivers brake early, it is the contrary, they brake late, dont do the ideal racing line and that is why they are slow.

And this is what make them hit the drivers. I did a race recently on Imola. I had a accident on first corner and this put me from 3rd to 10th. I continue on the race, and my pace was better, so I reach the slowest drivers that overtooke me. One of them had this strange behaviour, all brake points are wrong, and he really thought he could race against me, protecting his position like he thought he is a Senna or Jacques Villeneuve. But, as soon he brake late, I could overtake him, and them, on the straight, he braked late again and hit my back.

It is the case Sleeper Service are saying. Nobody will do this on real life. If you are slower, let the faster drivers pass and braking early to avoid hits and crashs.

On servers, they just forget all the risks. Also, they forget that drivers like Senna are hard to overtake because none overtake is easy on F1, too much turbulence, high understeer and the pace is too much better. Villeneuve, for example, used low aero settings, make his car faster on straights, turning overtake him a almost impossible maneuvre.

There is not such thing like "I'm slower driver on pace, but I'm a real good driver overtaking and defending my position." You have to be both.

And, I understand that be very caution can be dangerous too. But I prefer this rule, if you are behind, brake early, and this have to aply to the others cars too. It is impossible to 20 cars brake at 50 metters on the start of Monza race. The first will brake on 50, the second on 60, the third on 70 etc. Because the difference on time and space are different from different speeds. For example, at 360 km/h 1 second of difference is 100 metters, on 72 km/h it is only 20 metters. If both cars brake on the exact same point, when they slown down, they will crash, because the space difference will reduce. It is necessary to brake early to avoid contacts. You can see the AI on Assetto Corsa doing very slow the first corners because of these things.

 

Haha you wouldn't drive too close to an old grandpa in his car on a busy road, would you? Same applies to public servers, especially when you read someone asking "how much fuel for race?" right before the start.. especially on a formula car, especially at Monza. You really don't know who you're racing with. The only good choice is MR AB or SRS, where you have the certainty of either capable drivers or drivers caring for their score.

And I think I have become an evangelist of low FOV: using a FOV of 30 on my single display I now have a much better awareness of the distance to the car in front, which in turn makes.. the first turn much easier and close racing much more natural. High FOV distorts the space in front of you, so that you perceive things as farther than they really are, and you see them getting closer at a speed which is not linear. Not to mention how much more beautiful tracks look and feel, and how much more enjoyable is driving after you get used to it. Death to high FOVs!

I really think this is one of the big differences between people playing on triple screens (or VR) and people on single screens. You are faster on triple screens or VR not because you can see the cars on your sides, you are faster because you have low FOV. Most casual players, instead, just go with single screen and the default setting of 56 and while they can still be fast, they are more prone to accidents. If they just lowered the FOV they'd immediately become better drivers. Have I already said death to high FOVs?

 

I agree that with low FOV you can judge speed and breaking distance better. It makes you more precise but big downside is if you are on single screen with low FOV you can't see other cars around you and on some sharp corners you can't even see the apex well. That's why I think single screen users are handicapped.

 

I agree, you see less (well I have a 21:9 display so that helps seeing stuff on the sides), but the advantage of not rear-ending the car in front of you and being more consistent outweighs the disadvantages. For general awareness of cars on my sides and behind me I use Helicorsa which does a great job. About not seeing the apex, honestly once I learn the track I know by instinct where the wheels are, I don't need to see them or the apex. I can also adjust the view to help with that.
Fact is I am not rear-ending other cars by mistake any longer, I evaluate braking distance much better in corners so I stay on the track, I can see the changes of track elevation and camber more accurately so I can adjust my braking and steering etc. Which is basically what a driving simulator is for, simulating real driving. Last weekend I hopped on a multiplayer server at Lake Louise and drove the Shelby Cobra, amazing car in AC but kind of a wild horse. I was blasting through the mountains with almost zero crashes, fantastic driving experience. When you brake without missing the apex, control the power oversteer, lift the brakes before a crest, basically you are in control and it's double the fun.

I was actually convinced to turn to low FOV after watching the videos of @HelplessDeer racing in the ACRL leagues. He's super fast and accurate and he is on a single screen.

 

It's all down to personal preference. For me, "correct" FOV is a no go on my single screen. I prefer to feel comfortable, and have at least some degree of spatial awareness.

 

Totally legitimate and I used to think the same way. About the spatial awareness though, while I understand what you mean, I still think a low FOV gives me more spatial awareness. Correct me if I am wrong (I am not an expert so curves and numbers are arbitrary, just meant to give the idea):

An object which is for example 10 m away from me could look even 20 m away from me on a high FOV. You'll say "yes, whatever I can adapt to it". The problem, though, is that the object will also reach you at a higher perceived speed. For example let's say it takes 1 second to reach you. With a high FOV the object will go at perceived 20m/sec against the 10 m/sec with "correct" FOV. True, you still have the same time to react, 1 second, but now you have 2 things that can fool you: distance and speed. And this applies to cornering, close racing etc. Bam! First corner at Monza.
Another thing that can fool you is that a higher FOV stretches the road in front of you, so if there's a cliff, camber, elevation change etc. it looks much flatter than it is in real life, prompting you to react the wrong way. Yes, you can adapt to it but reality will play tricks on you every now and then and there you are in the bushes.
So, a more correct FOV in my opinion = better spatial awareness (btw my correct FOV is 23 and I use 30 so yes it's a compromise).
And if you think about it, we strive for laser-scanned tracks and then we drive on them wearing distortion goggles? Ok, the Simulation Value runs strong in my family..

 

EDIT: hmm well I am ignorant on the matter so i don't really know if FOV really works like in my sketch, although it seems likely to me. Any expert?

 

Everything you wrote is correct but "spatial awareness" in my case means "to see (be aware of) objects/cars around you".
I believe Christopher also meant this.

In the end it's a compromise between speed and distance fidelity and wider vision.

 

You don't need High FOV to be able to race on a single monitor. You need common sense, spatial awareness and practice.

Just because you can't see someone doesn't mean you can't know he is there.

 

Even if you know someone is on your side you can't tell how close he is.

 

Look left/right buttons.

 

Being cautious is usually for the better. Back when Minorating was actually really good and I was enjoying it, there were a lot of people being respectful, in your opinion probably overly cautious, in the first few corners. That really makes for a lot less contacts, crashes, damages and therefore quitters, swearing and stuff that I'm not looking for when playing AC.

From your posts you seem like a guy we had in our group as well; he very much bullied people out of the way by being the only guy to make these kind of moves. As the other guys were not interested in getting crashed out of the race, they did the safe thing and moved out of the way. That doesn't mean he was good, fast or respected, that only means people didn't want to end with him ending up whining and themselves out of the race. Of course I'm not saying you are, but it might open your view of how others look towards you if it is the case.

Getting a better start doesn't give you a free-pass card if the situation isn't anywhere near safe, and the first corner of a race is quite possible the most risky moment in the entire race to go for an overtake since there's so much traffic near you who probably can't react to split-second collisions. So.. in case someone does shut the door for you, don't be surprised and don't judge..

I won't even go into the differences between real motorsport and the money involved versus armchair racers with too big ego's and ditto budgets for armchair racing equipment, but even then it would probably make more sense in real motorsport as well to not get involved in crashes and get to the finish line safely more often.

On topic: I think Monza is not popular because of its first corner and loads of collisions happening there. The cutting rules actually being quite spot on on this track, while also being a bit unfair towards drivers who make evasive moves and end up off track, getting penalties on top of that.

 

You make a lot of assumptions... as i mentioned, i did 350 plus races in iRacing, where contact, and wreck outs are being monitored, meaning you can protest, and the officials from iRacing will observe the incident, watching the video snippet the protesting party provides. So you know: I was never protested, and never got a warning, or even a temporary ban for a week or more. I remember that one time someone complained about one action i had in a race when i pushed him off the track, and i totally agreed that that was my fault. Otherwise, i know how to overtake without wrecking someone out, and THAT's where the main issue is, because many don't know it, and just stupidly, and stubbornly crash into the guy in front, because they don't brake later, but they brake 50 metres TOO late. Why do things like the ones shown in the videos above work in real life? Because these guys know how to do it. They're not some whacky amateurs, and crash drivers. As simple as that really.

In iRacing, you immediately knew the drivers who can race, and those who can't. Those who can't brake 20 metres later than you, even though you're already on the limit of braking, and they move from side to side absolutely unpredictably. That's dangerous driving, which causes the accidents, not braking on the edge in the first corner, and judging how far you get taken out at the exit of the corner. If you do that, and let your opponents room to breath, when they're aside of you, it is absolutely no issue to take the first corner on the limit. Actually, it is much more dangerous to brake 50 metres early, because people behind you won't know if you brake 50 metrs, or 40 metres, or 30 metres early. Predictability, that's what it's about, mostly. If, in the race, you take a corner always the same time, it's a very bad idea to take it completely different at one point.

 

Too easy..

 

You are absolutely right, but to behave well on the track you need a good reason to do so, and on a public server people just don't care. In SRS, which works a bit like iRacing, you lose race points for each contact, so of course people are careful and know that the other cars will be careful too. Last night I had a GT3 race at Monza on SRS: 35+ people booked for the race, split into 2 servers, mine had 24 cars, first corner was mostly clean and the battles I had on the track were totally clean. On a public server instead you just have anyone doing whatever they want and no consequence for their behavior. In that case it's better to stay away from trouble.

 

I did make some assumptions, but I also said "seem", not "are", and "of course I'm not saying you are", not "you are".

The thing is that the guy I mentioned also wasn't in many incidents, but that was only because other people chose to avoid him. My problem with iRacing as well, was that fast and consistent drivers were given high safety ratings despite not being able to race in close quarters most of the time. The "true" safe drivers then just move out of the way to avoid having their safety rating compromised, but at the same time giving the other guys the feeling that they master race craft and overtaking. The latter is usually just a very small group that make it too the higher safety ratings.

It's the other side of the coin of safety in racing.. Again, not saying you are, your posts just came across that way.

Most important point I had was that in most cases it's not safe to deliberately go for passes in the first few corners unless people move out of the way, Monza probably being the prime example of "most cases" regardless of bad starts and missed apexes; there is simply hardly enough space and too much risk.

 

T1 at monza is allways a little tricky, especially on open servers..also its a very fast track so if one or two drivers dont know the track, they mess it up for 10 other people most of the time. But if you find some fair, good drivers its a great track.. Many spots to overtake people (or let people pass).. Imo one of the best tracks for f1 cars.