Next-gen trees in simracers

This has to be personal taste because I couldn't disagree more about the graphics. Forza doesn't look good to me at all. It just looks brought and flashy. Pcars looks better hands down but Forza I'm not seeing it.

 

Mogster is the only one who got what I actually implied in my previous post:

For everyone else who didn't, what I meant was that if I had the skill to build a mod track, I would test the crippling point of top PCs by making the most realistic looking track with as much vegetation as possible and as realistic looking as possible. Just for testing purposes to see how much the AC graphics engine can handle and how much a top PC can too.

Consider it as a benchmark if you will, but mostly as an indication of what the future of racing sims could offer in terms of close to real like graphics. So of course if I could build such a track, just for the purpose of testing the limits, I could also make a version 2 of it that would be less demanding on PCs and thus less realistic looking, but usable at over 60fps.

Is any modder bold enough to try to do what I described? I wish I did track mods instead of sound mods, I would have done it by now, but sound modding seems so much easier that track modding to me...

P.S. I know that track with the 458 pics, I forgot it has 3d trees too.

 

Well it's funny because snoopy tried it and even with just slightly more complicated trees practically everyone complained about fps and never tried his golf course track after a lap or two.

So yes someone had tried it, and unfortunately (and rightly so) you're in the minority of people playing a racing simulator who thinks it's worth the fps trade off to have better looking trees.

I'm sure one day our computers will be able to render fully 3d trees in real time, but not today to any meaningful extent. Not in the current ac engine especially.

 

I agree with what you said, still I would try to do it if I could.

And for the record, Snoopy's Golf Track only lowers my fps by 16 compared to Spa. From lowest 96 fps on Spa to lowest 80 fps on Snoopy's track. Hardly an extremely demanding track on a 3 year old computer.

I really meant what I said about 20fps track on my PC. That would mean a brand new beast of PC should at least get 40+ fps on the same overly demanding track, compared to my rig.

I see nothing wrong with experimenting with that kind of stuff at all. After all modding is free and open in this game. Just imagine a track so good looking and realistically made that would top even the best Kunos tracks at the price of being very demanding on the PC.

I actually consider it an advantage the fact that we (you) as modders can do that sort of crazy thing with a mod track, but Kunos can't do that. Not because thy don't know how to make a track like that, but because thy don't have the luxury to say "tough luck" to 70-80% of their customers, which don't have top end PCs and would not be able to play on such a track.

So yeah, why not a crazy mod like this?

 

Hopefully someone will try it for you

Nothing wrong with your suggestion, the only reason why it hasn't happened is because the majority simply don't think they way you do, that's all.

Another reason why it hasn't happened is technically it is impossible on some tracks, if i tried to put even 5%of trees as 3d trees on my track, the polygon count will be over what ac editor will support.

I hope one day it'll be technically feasible and also easier to make better looking trees for racing games!

 

I have to answer here, as you might have figured out, that I feel the same way about AC. So the purpose of this thread is not really that I or anyone needs to calm down and realize what a gem AC already is, all in comparison. This tree-trip is pure speculation: can we have it? does it make a difference for the driving experience? hardware/software barriers? and so on. If it can get a ball rolling inside some modders head or even KS, it served it´s purpose.

low/hi 56-70fps, averaging at just over 60fps.
settings:
1920x1080
Singlescreen
Fullscreen rend.
Vsync off/no cap
Max AF/AA/World/Ultra
Smoke low
PP on, ultra/ultra/low/motion off/Rays on/heat off/Fast AA on
Normal Mirror/High q off
Low reflection/very low freg.

So even on my old bugger it runs. I could probably get solid 60fps on triples with low settings and no PP, as I already use when I play mp.

 

@PAKFA why don't you try it yourself ? you don't have to do a full track, just do the trees only and have someone place them in the game for you
, if you concentrate on one thing alone, you might be an expert in it after some time

@Tberg I find those trees really uggly, prefer the 2d sprites , yes they look funny but at least somewhat realistic (shading/shapes .etc)

 

That is a very mature way of looking at it.

For the "fanboy" that I am it isn't people saying let's see if we can do this with the engine but the constant demanding and complaining how "x" game is superior to ac because it has feature "y". And the dev's aren't doing anything about it because they just to getting rich off of DLC. I think it's that sentiment that makes some of us look to overreact, since it's those comments were seeing everywhere we go.

 

We will never have computers fast enough to render trees and everything else. If we drop the fidelity and graphics to a generation or two ago we could render the trees that some are so desperately seeking. But high quality trees don't sell racing games. No one is going to put in the time to do the foliage the proper justice that some demand they have.

 

yet saying about other games they they are crap because their physics is not as good as AC is fine and mature

each sim out there has good points and weaknesses,
we're spoiled for choice and for many of us ( especially considering the prices of the HW) it's easy enough to buy all of the serisous sims, so what's exactly is the problem ?

cars are sellers of the racing games, that's just plain fact

 

I don't say other games are crap, I say the graphics in Forza don't look better than that in ac. I always try to state my opinion as I love ac and this is why. I don't like sim x, y, and z because of this. People trying to make a living off of creating a product that our community wants is a commendable endeavor.

 

They might be ugly, the thing is how it works in motion and with the lighting, hard to see on a picture. Sure the models could be better, this is just showcasing the idea of it.
To counter your prefered likings, and I know you know how it looks, I will bring up an example now we´re talking about it.
This is T1 on Spa, same high settings as mentioned before. This reminds me of parallax scrolling from the early days, and it´s a shame that the lighting in many cases just don´t work with y-trees, as has been mentioned. So in some way, whatever that is: if larger visible/close portions of trees could be resonable 3d models, I personally already have experienced the better percieved world immersion. If that makes sense, I apologize for any language difficulties.
This is purely in interest of pushing this, imo, only thing LEFT in the visuals to improve (not taking optimizations into account).

 

@Leemstradamus I didn't mean you per say,

yes, they might be better if they are 3d trees, but if the texture is better tweaked, they will not stand out and look good as well,
the color/balancing can really make it work or not,
adding one 3d tree won't break your machine, but it also won't make that much of a difference, and once you replace all the ones that are close, suddenly you added maybe 500,000 triangles only on trees, .. let alone making the track size bigger for memory

we all have our wishes about AC and that's fine , some will come through and some won't
AC is moddable, so that should give anyone answer to their questions, - if you want to know, create a 3d tree, talk to modder or anything else and try to get them into the game and see what difference they make, or try to find someone who will do it for you

but as I said before, if made sense to be done, it would have been done , the fact that those trees are not proper 3d trees is most likely a perfomane/optimization decission, let alone time/budget decission , you can ask Kunos if they want to replace some trees with 3d trees, but I'd personally prefer them spending time on briging the overall quality to same level ( like upgrading Trento and some other tracks to the standarts of SPA/Imola/Monza) , rather then replacing trees with 3d ones

comparioson GT6 and AC

 

Your photo looks pretty repetitive and ugly for sure!

 

I hear you, maybe a better way for making 2d-trees is out there for AC to absorb soon, that would be nice, maybe it´s lighting/texture issues fixing, I don´t know.

Lol, I can almost smell sarcasm, hard to tell
Anyway, what do u think could be a solution, putting 3d trees aside?

 

Don't mean to derail the conversation here, but imo that ac racing line groove bothers me more often than the trees. Quite often it's not on the actual racing line.

 

Good point, I´ve thought about that a lot, the racelines are pretty much off on every track, if you go fast and keep 2 wheels on track.

 

I think it's more about " in each game you will find a section where it looks uggly" rather the "technology/textures" needs to be improved ,
it's also the balancing/polishing phase -which unlike modders, Kunos don't have the luxury of endless time

I definitely rather see firetrucks/ambulances/TV crew aroudn the track, rather then having same triangles/textures spend on better trees

however if there are tracks where there is 1 or few big trees really close, then these could be replaced , but I don't think that trees are big problem for AC,

 

The mapping on those branches triggers me.

 

I fully understand what you are saying, and what your personal opinion are on the trees of AC. For me, and pretty damn sure for many many others, visually, yes the trees are infact the biggest "problem" in AC if we look purely on track objects. That said, once again, not the point of taking up the trees for discussion to find out whether or not it is truly a problem that requires attention. It´s just for the fun of it, and just maybe, getting a feel of the possibilities for improvements in near future
Taking up another example: mod tracks are even worse, cause many use either bad textures, are conversions from old stuff, or plain simple just used in f.i. a city track where the trees a too damn close, their 2d nature not to be overlooked.
Take a track like Luccaring, which I personally love driving. Everything on and around this track is really good for a mod, even most trees. On some parts, trees hang in over the track, an effect to the experience I like, but I can´t help myself feeling a small part of me is strugling not to "see" these trees as they look, instead just trying to concentrate on being immersed for those parts. It´s like going between 80-100% immersed, then have drops to 50-80%...because of those trees. Could be other stuff as well, of cause that happens. Same goes for Lake Louise, the track is a great drive, great looking, and...the trees bug me, no matter what limitations we might have. And I do the same, concentrate on getting immersed rather than just being it, which does already happen in many occations with AC. Yes, I´ve gotten so good that I can concentrate with little effort on being immersed lap after lap, not a subject up for discussion
Geez, been a long time since I took a conversation this far out, I'm sorry.