Next-gen trees in simracers

it's not only limitation, it's also about time,

as an example, there is a reason why some modded cars look really well done/detailed - such as the Cobra/Miura, and others , while looking good, lack that little bit of fine detail, it's this detail that takes you another huge chunk of time to make those,

so in case of modded tracks, if the track takes you 300 hours to build, if you put lot of attention to every/most trees, it can easily take another 100 hours,
I can see why it might be important to people to have these issues being fixed, but someone needs to do that, and will that be you ? or pakfa ?

it's one thing agreeing on "yes, trees can look better, no matter what technology is used" , such as can be proven with good looking 2d trees in gran turismo,
but simply asking if someone else can make better trees for you ? just so you can see if it can be better ??

I guess my point is not very clear at this point,
trees can look amazing and it only takes skills and time, but if there is limited number of people who have both, the chances are you won't see these often

which is again, why my best recommendation would be that you should show people how it should look like and they will adapt it,

 

I can't agree with this anymore than what you said. This discussion is about what's wrong and not what's next and that annoys the hell out of some people. It's like people don't understand what a budget is. Just like in life you have a budget to live on and its the same in game engine. Game engines have a poly budget. So we need to compromise over what we can get. The focus is on cars and track. The scenery gets pushed down in the budget.

 

I have in my mind the idea of such a track that could work with lots of 3d trees. It needs to have little elevation changes, so that the highest point of the track is a little lower than the coronas of the highest trees. That means no mountains and climbing roads, because in those cases when you get at higher ground you would need to show half a map of trees and landscape (as in your track) and that would not work at all.
With the road elevation being kept lower than the highest trees coronas you won't see much further into the distance and a much lower count of threes would be displayed until you see the horizon.
The focus of that kind of track would be very close to the track, high quality 3d trees, like driving thru a thick forest.

This is the kind of track, which is actually a public road and the effect I'm looking for:



All it needs for a place like this to look good in AC is having the proximity to the road, those 10-20 meters on each side replicate reality: lush grass and bushes and 3d trees. After that you can easily use Y trees because no one will see them when driving or watching replays.

My philosophy is this: everything you see from the driver's eyes in reality while driving on a track/road should be represented in the virtual recreation. What you don't see in reality, it's not important and can be modeled with lower textures and all those tricks to optimize the GPU performance.

Trying it and doing it good are two different things altogether. Getting to the level of knowledge and skill I want in 3d modeling and track modding would take me a few months at least if not more.

I made up my mind last year when I had that issue with Kunos and some of the members of this community that I will not make another mod for this game until the issue is resolved. It has not been resolved. If you don't know about it, don't ask me about it, because I won't say anything else about it publicly. But this is one of the main reasons why I don't do sound mods anymore or any other kind of mods.

Recently I did some slight modifications of some PP filter mods, but I don't consider those modifications to be proper mods, so I let them slide.

Considering that what I just said above plus the fact that PCars is close to launch, so I will get my share of beautiful graphics soon, I have even less reasons to start now new projects for AC.

However I do share my ideas freely and if so happens that someone is interested in them, they can use them for their projects, like it happened with Blackcelica's generic kunos driversuit, gloves & helmets which is meant to be an avatar like suit that you can use with any car in AC. That was my idea and Christopher Pick's work.

 

Having track design dictated by the limitations imposed by making trees 3D is one of the most bizarre suggestions I've ever heard.

 

As absurd it may seem to some of you, 20 years ago, we had very few if none 3d objects in our games. Gradually as tech progressed everything became 3d models: the objects, the NPCs, cars, walls, structures, etc. In FPS games 3d trees are no longer an issue to talk about, they are there and looking better and better all the time.

It's time for everyone to accept that this is the progress that racing sims need to and will adhere to from now on. Even though they are 1 or 2 technological steps behind, it will happen. So asking for them is not absurd at all.

 

No idea why you get the impression I'm against having 3D trees. I was simply pointing out that designing your track specifically to accommodate them is completely backwards.

 

Depends on track: for Silverstone NO (as in, trees are not important), for Nordschleife YES.

 

Today I went sightseeing... source engine (updated, not the same from previous games) for cs:go. They don't have the large quantity that a race track should have of trees and vegetation, but here is for some ideas. Trees branches swing slightly, but I guess is animation.

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 3

Spoiler: 4

Spoiler: 5

Spoiler: 6

 

I don't want to disappoint you, but that is not even current gen graphics (or "at least" Crisys 3 quality), that's more like last gen.

Here are the next gen graphics:

The Witcher 3 (forests and vegetation) REDengine 3:

Spoiler

Tom Clancy's The Division (forests and vegetation) Snowdrop Engine:

Spoiler

Edit: I forgot to add Uncharted 4 which has great looking vegetation also:



And these are beyond next gen graphics:





Real Time Ray Tracing needs a lot of CPU/GPU power, so we will have to wait a few years for that, but the 1st video looks great.

 

Those are excellent samples, they look amazing. Be interesting to know the render stats on screen for polygon and draw count for them. They do look a hundred times better than the trees in our racing sims.

Another issue with trees is, surprisingly it's quite difficult to find good tree images.

 

That is really heavy for a sim racing game. Playing a single player game is quite different than what we play here.

 

I know, that's why I said "a few more years". Nevertheless the future looks very nice as far as gaming graphics goes. Mark my words, I don't want to give specific dates, but we will get eventually to have photo realistic quality in racing sims too, not only in FPS games, and when that day comes quite a few people will laugh about such trivial contradictory topics like "do we need or not need 3d trees in racing sims/I don't need 3d trees because I don't see them when I drive". When you get that kind of realistic graphics in front of your eyes, you will see them and see the difference too.

 

You don't see far and drive fast in GTA? What? If GTA V can run on a ps3 and have 3d trees there is no excuse for AC. Especially with all the other games out there that also have 3d trees, many of them racing games. Look at my golf track. Runs fine for me. The problem is there is no vegetation system that uses proxies and lods in AC. Filesizes get huge end eventually you run into the vertices limit of the editor. Even city sim games have 3d trees these days. GT6 has 3d trees. PS3 has 256mb ram btw.

 

Nice to see you Post on here. Are there any limitations with ac being 32 bit? I haven't even seen your golf track but is that good performance with 23 other cars on track?

 

Is this why you stopped updating your golf track?

And do you think that because of that limit a track like I described in post #83 would not be possible currently in AC (made with 3d trees of course)?

 

Just reporting in, that I enjoy the last pages of "serious" tinkering with the subject, beyond whether or not AC should have better trees.
Thanks

best

 

This so much. How is that even possible. I'm looking everywhere for trees like this (img) and without result.


But don't forget that AC is simulating physics for every AI car. So I don't think it's even possible with this engine. I would rather have more light sources (whose idea was only have one?) than 3D trees.

 

So, are those new trees ready yet? Come on, guys. I haven't got all day!

 

I am quite late to this conversation about pushing the limits in sim software. but that is exactly what I am doing at present. not necessarily trees.(yet) but already I have produced 5km x 5km system where there are zero repeated textures. which equates to the most natural terrain I had ever seen in a sim. my theory being based on how extraordinary the GTA5 environment is that the same is possible in the sim world. but its not, it truly is engine specific at the end of the day, but there are serious improvements to be made in all areas of this game engine that I am proving as we speak, trees need the best artist possible to get better. not necessarily any new methods.

 

Is that "system" made for AC, any more details, a link to some pictures maybe? Because it sounds interesting what you are trying to do.