XB1 content a little light

I told you the fella was arrogant. Like my father would say: "A Bear knows best".

 

It's always dangerous to go on a public forum and make a Grand Sweeping Generalization disguised (ex post facto) as an "opinion", and this thread proves it.

When I was in the USAF, we used COTS (Commercial Off the Shelf) sims and had an entire department looking at these to cost-effectively replace our "real sims", which were getting really long in the tooth.

Simulators (Yes, they really do exist) are an integral part of any aviation training program. While they can't replicate every last physical sensation (nor is that really useful), they can certainly impart a high level of expertise, and in a safe manner (especially when you're simulating things like, oh, say...engine fires).

How would a pilot ever learn how to handle a real emergency without the use of such simulators - even though they're missing the seemingly critical smell of smoke and vomit wafting in from the passenger compartment? Or would you rather your pilot encounter these little emergencies for the very first time On The Job?

The "There are no real simulators" guy would likely insist that we instead put pilots into burning planes or intentionally ingest birds into turbofans - Because, you know, otherwise it's not a real Simulator.

Probably some of the most ridiculous Thread-Hijacking nonsense I've ever read, but it is the Internet after all.

 

Professional Simulators

as opposed to

Commercial Entertainment "Simulations" (very good games)

That's where I was coming from.
Amen to that.

 

have you ever tried one? Which one?
What is, in your opinion the difference between "Professional Simulators" and "Commercial Entertainment Simulators" that turns the former into a "true simulator" and the latter into a "non true simulator"?

 

This is very vague, misleading and puts an "inferior quality" label on anything sold to the public at a reasonable price. The quality of any simulator (no matter which label you want to give it) can be measured by comparing a RL measured value this simulator considers to the equivalent simulation output value.

The best simulators will be those, where these values are compared back to back on a regular base and the simulation is aligned, accordingly. Think about AC and their partnerships, now. Porsche and Ferrari would certainly give Kunos the sh1t if their test drivers didn't approve with what AC delivers.

 

Plato99 I just looked back at the post that started a lot of this conversation and it looks a lot to me like you are describing a track day or a decent driving experience like Palmer Sport so I'd say those experiences are already available for the mass home market. Your "game for grown-ups" comment also stands for these experiences, that is really what they are. I also imagine it is where a lot of people who start out in computer games progress on to, which I assume is why car companies like the association too. The real difference is cost. A day at Palmer Sport costs more than a high-end PC, decent wheel and game software for just a couple of hours of track driving experience. With track days the headline price looks cheap but the reality as you get quicker if far different as I'm guessing you already know. I've used AC and other pc games to learn track layouts before and I'd do the same again in future.

For me, AC (and pCARS imo) does a fine job of getting close to that track day experience at a fraction of the cost and with a far greater variety of cars and tracks than I could actually afford to drive. I'd call that a simulation. If I want the extra realism you describe I can book a track event and empty my wallet to pay for it.

 

What started all this off, was in some people's opinion A/C is a sim and P Cars isn't. The question was what's the point a game becomes a sim. Then it's all gone far to far. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, and it was a fun debate, but people can't start calling people names just because they don't agree with there opinion.

 

Yes, there seem to be three camps.

1. P Cars and AC are both Sims

2. P Cars is not a sim but AC is.

3. There is no such thing as a sim as they are not real.

Maybe we could add a poll?

 

Im sure you would get alot of independent answers on a poll like that on AC forum.

 

I vote for 4.
4. It doesn't matter if it's a sim or not, i just play the games i enjoy.

 

3 of course a sim is not real, that's the whole point of a sim. To have a experience you cannot have for real.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N910F met Tapatalk

 

Dear Lord, I also wish you'd remove my account, as it bothers me seeing anything related to myself associated with a place where arrogant fellows throw idiotic insults and threats (for idiotic reasons) at innocent well meaning others while attempting to exhibit their supposed intellectual supremacy (note this is far from being an academic place that would justify your conduct, hence the strangeness and ridiculousness of it).

Besides, you're not here to sell a simulation to an automaker; you're talking mostly to people who are only after a quality pastime, which AC certainly is; that's enough. Disputing your passionate professional views with amateurs in the way you do it, tainting your image for no big deal, is a demonstration your intelligence may not go far beyond your technical expertise, after all. If you're a human being seeking self improvement, as you state somewhere above, maybe it's not much in the technical arena you should concentrate.

Please, see to it my account is removed as requested - I'd be very thankful.

P.S. - Alternatively, if Our Lord can't work this miracle, would you please see it's done for me @AC_CM505? Thanks.

 

I would vote for number 1, in my opinion both P Cars and AC is a driving/racing sim .

 

Forum suicide notes are the best and this thread has delivered multiple!!!!

 

I agree. AC is a great driving feel simulator. pCARS is a great race experience simulator. Both are fabulous, both are flawed.

 

Hahaha well said, i didn't think of that, but i agree, so i adjust my vote and vote for number 1 AND 4 .

I don't understand why some does that, leave the thread and /or take a time off from the forum, or just leave without any drama, no need for burning the bridge for future visits to forums imo.

 

I'd vote 1 as well

 

I don't understand the fuzz about the simulators.

When a software in a computer, tries to simulate a physical phenomenon, you have a simulator.
This is a fact and it is objective.
We don't need anyone to define what is simulator.

Now that this is clear, it's not strange that modern pc's , having so much computing power, can simulate a complex physical phenomenon as is a car .

In sim racing , we call this is a sim, this is a simcade, this is arcade etc.

Personally and all of us deeply know, that this is wrong.

We choose to call a simulator as sim or simcade, depending of the % of successful simulation of a car.

Which consumer software (game) is better simulator than others, it's very easy to define: take a real car, measure it and then measure the simulator.

The simulator that simulates ALL aspects of the physical car better (larger %), is the best simulator.

Personally, i am really impressed of the % of the achieved simulation that i have in my room, using a few hundred of $ hardware with a few tens of $ software.

Don't you?

P.S. This is from another consumer game which show how close a modern simulator can be to life :

 

edit

 

@ingrobny [QUOTE="
I don't understand why some does that, leave the thread and /or take a time off from the forum, or just leave without any drama, no need for burning the bridge for future visits to forums imo.[/QUOTE]

Maybe Our majestic Lord can do without His royal guard. No drama intended, only an expression of repulsive bewilderment. As to burning bridges, it can all be dynamited for all i care; I was new to this forum and was liking the overall friendly environment of it until the bad example came from that Sire. I don't need and don't care for this forum; I can get info about AC elsewhere. Thanks for your concern; now you can go back to Your Majesty's.

Note, answering your unecessary remark doesn't mean getting into an argument; I hate this rubbish, as you may have noticed.
P.S. - Am I still alive?