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Driver Rating System to Be Included in Project CARS 2 - do we need it in AC2??

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Diablo_rf, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Wouldn't help that much. First you need to justify the salary AND the required infrastrucure in direct sales AND all changes to the current netcode, GUI, whatever - which is probably not possible for AC. Then you have the problem that you can't just hire 1 person for a job, at least this is my professional opinion. After all I'm riding a ZX9R.

    Additionally I couldn't work as a modder which drastically changes both output and perception.

    100% agree. MR has very little impact on people that aren't following all that stuff closely, which is a shame. The biggest issue is feedback and visualization.
    I mean today somebody who just wants to try AC enters a server and gets flooded by chat messages. Do we really expect him to find the correct one, go to an outdated website and read up all the stuff?

    In a perfect world "my" sim would warn a user whenever he is starting do to something stupid, and in any case give him a clear message and rule after it happened. Like a 5s video explaining the racing rule he just violated, and what behaviour the simracing world expects from him. But well, in my perfect world my code is also well documented, 100% unit tested and Angela Merkel didn't make it to the environment minister. And we have a very good solution, as Kunos couldn't have invested as much time in this field.

    What is "such a system"? The article explicitly tells we have no details, a shame. In my mind you could have:

    - Matchmaking Rating (early MR, SRS)
    - Leaderboards for Laptimes (RSR) and Matchmaking and whatever
    - Active matchmaking (finding a good race for you by ratings)
    - Hosted events/leagues (SRS)
    - Safety rating (MR)
    - ???

    The words in the article suggest something around matchmaking, but you never know. In my amateur opinion you'll want to have hosted events/leagues including matchmaking, which can only be done sensibly when having a good Safety Rating and support for different Rankings (ELO, Laptimes, Safety, Consistency). When you have the latter anyways it's not a big step to also display them for public use.

    Yes, actually the ELO (=80% of the matchmaking value) was part of MR in the first weeks/months, but I had the problem that it was always watching and I didn't like the side effects too much. Given enough time MR will eventually return there and let the server admin decide whether the server is serious or not. It was great stuff, really liked it. But I'll never be able to offer the actual matchmaking service (=servers) with private money, so this is like doing 100% of the work but only 30% of the reward. Nope, for the moment I'll continue my research of accident analysis, it's getting really hot there ;)


    Still glad to see that many sims are catching up here. IIRC R3E announced something similar?
    Of course we shouldn't be too optimistic, just announcing the topic doesn't mean they will satisfy our wildest dreams.


    Edit: And please, don't do such thread titles. Don't even use this "we need" bla term, I almost did not even read this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  2. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Come on, you know I was joking a bit.
    But ok, even if it were a serious option and if you were interested, I'm pretty sure there would be ways. ;)

    The good thing about such a system (and also the AI programming) is that these most likely (without knowing the actual code, there is still a chance that things are different for AC) are things that can be done individually without too much interference with other parts of the simulation.
    So if they are going to grow the team, these are areas (among e.g. track modeling) where I'd expect them to invest.
    But ok, that's just wild speculation from my side. :)
     
  3. falkeGT

    falkeGT Gamer

    Hello Minolin,

    if I got it right, you coded Minorating? Thank you very much for doing so, I absolutely appreciate your work. In my opinion it's a very good system and helps a lot.
    I would love to see such a system securely implemented in racing games.

    As Project Cars 1 was released SMS was advertising they implemeted "a rating and matchmaking system" into it. It was the main reason for me to buy it.
    I was very disappointed that in fact there is nothing like that in that game. Nothing.

    I've asked in their forum why they advertise it though not being implemented, but there was no answer on that.

    And again they advertise it for Project Cars 2 the same way. I've been their customer once but I really regret it, I will definately not support (pay) them any further.
    They still have it on their website for project cars 1, you can have a look:

    http://www.projectcarsgame.com/online.html

    Scroll down a little until it says <<All this information is then used to ensure you find players of similar skill and conduct. Continually collide with other drivers and you'll slowly make acquaintances with others of similar destructive tendencies. Drive with good sportsmanlike conduct and you'll be enjoying the company of other refined opponents.>>)


    cheers, falkeGT
     
    Octane, Coanda, Berniyh and 2 others like this.
  4. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Oh, didn't know about that one Oo. To be honest I wouldn't offensively tell there is no such system under the hood, as I don't really understand the lobby selection menu in pCars. It may be that there is only a band visible to your "matchmaking" (although this is not my version of matchmaking).
    But even if so, I wouldn't expect too much when it comes to the safety rating. It is easy to make something, and hard to do it right and sophisticated. I literally spent thousands hours of thinking and coding, and I might be at a point where I finally know where the story may end. Still the MR model is pretty good so far. In comparison, iRating is really basic stuff but they have more inputs (like offtrack).
     
  5. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Sorry for the 2post, you mention something highly interesting here. Actually it could highly change how the AI is done (at least for a from-scratch project).
    My current work on MR is the creation of a model that understands on-track situations, I consider this as absolute requirement to judge accidents - or at least try to do so. As soon as the client understands race situations (and the most predictable and clean reactions), you probably want the AI's racecraft to be based on this tactical understanding. This may be nonsense as I have no clue how the AI really works.
     
    Quffy and TDS like this.
  6. TDS

    TDS Alien

    Digital bros should buy and implement MR from @Minolin ;-) that is; if he would sell it idk heheh its like a son maybe.
     
  7. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Isnt minorating already in use on Kunos official servers?: )
     
    TDS likes this.
  8. TDS

    TDS Alien

    yep but implemented in the core game.. and to make mino a richer guy to buy a new bike ;-) he deserves a new one for 2017.. ;-)

    btw @Minolin if you sell it cut me some comission, 5% is great, so i can buy a new wheel for ac lol
     
    Andrew_WOT and kofotsjanne like this.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Why should I sell my bike?
     
    Cote Dazur, Berniyh and TDS like this.
  10. TDS

    TDS Alien

    hehehehe
     
  11. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    For AC2 something like Minorating could be (should be) in-built. Since the big boys with big bucks are now in, it could be possible. Consoleros need Minorating just as much, but can't get it.
     
  12. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT Alien

    Why wait for AC2, that might not even happen?
     
  13. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    "The acquisition allows full control of the intellectual property and the opportunity for the Group to invest in the future development of new versions of Assetto Corsa benefiting from an extremely well-positioned brand in the world market for video games."
    https://www.gtplanet.net/kunos-simulazioni-to-be-acquired-by-digital-bros/
    We can always pretend that they will keep supporting AC(1) and only get money from DLC's, but do someone really believe that? :p :)
     
    MBK72 likes this.
  14. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    I'd say yes to anything which would create more goals other than improving laptimes, having awesome races online (winning few times lol), unlocking achievements, mastering setups click-fu, improving skills overall.

    I have some kind of winning/loosing points idea, but I wonder what Kunos would come up with (if they would at all).

    Also more statistics would be nice, maybe having driver cards or something....
     
  15. MBK72

    MBK72 Hardcore Simmer

    Loved this one little comment from Minolin, the true joy of intrinsic motivation - the desire to do something because you love it. Your app is superb you deserve the praise. The same motivation style across many areas of business.

    Start paying people, giving them targets to hit and things change. No one seems to have picked up on this issue with the recent sale of the entire KS/AC IP, who knows how the previous owner's motivations will change?

    We need a good player (behaviour) matching system on both PC and console in future sim/racing games the people who create that deserves all the rewards they get.
     
  16. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Well, Aris was a modder as well. And very passionate about it. ;)
     
    MBK72 likes this.
  17. MBK72

    MBK72 Hardcore Simmer

    I wonder how he feels about his bosses payday? Minecraft staff draw interesting comparison.

    Once money becomes the motivator the chequebook starts to rule. I wonder where some of the talents behind AC will end up?
     
  18. Diablo_rf

    Diablo_rf Hardcore Simmer

    Guys I made this thread so you would write your thoughts about why the future versions of AC would benefit from such systems and how you see them working and which features they should have.
    Lets give some ideas to the devs ;)
     
  19. TERRA21

    TERRA21 Racer

    AC2? thats jumping the gun abit.. But Yes it would be nice to have this type of system introduced officially by KS. But there is more a lot more important core features for not just MP but AC in general that are needed before something like a rating system should even be considered. Besides all the tools needed are pretty much already out there for this. which do the job just fine MR,RSR,SRS...etc
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  20. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    I think DEVs would know best what they want the most, and that is absolute priority. But it is awesome that we, as a community, had (I hope we still have) a slightly audible voice in developement of AC. It must be the "Suggestions" subforum.

    I've had some "creative moments" in the past.

    Created this thread is suggestions section: https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...cs-achievements-for-online-multiplayer.36413/

    Didn't get much attention, so I guess it is not a big idea. I also have been told that iRacing has something like that, but I have no idea, never touched it. Also nobody proved yet that this idea is bad (YET).
     
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