Has the ai reached it's final potential ?

Or it could also mean that people buy more games that they can actually play online at any given time and that there is also something else beyond gaming in their own lives (work, girls, ice-creams etc.).
This doesn't mean that they don't value MP or that they think that Assetto should only be SP. It only tells you that Marco, as an Assetto Corsa representative, is trying to get people to focus on the current selling aspects of the game and that, like you can testify, he's doing a good job.
That said it could very well be in Marco's interest to push to improve the MP aspects of the game so that the next time that someone will ask him those questions he will be able to answer something different and get the interest of some new customers.

 

I think the trackwidth and/or speed is pretty relevant, they same to can overtake on wider tracks, while on the Nordschleife they struggle, while till there are two carwidth space.

But on all tracks they often kinda drive strictly behind you (on the line) and if your slightly of pace and especially if youre really slow or stopped they get stuck.

But there seem to be an improvement after 1.1 I think with 1.16. Could be a placebo too and it was a good earlier, cause I didn't spent much time on the other track after the NS appeard.

 

I wonder why so many MP fans have such hostile tone against players who wants good AI drivers and often says that it must be something wrong with the figures or just an approximation bla bla bla.

I am pretty sure that Marco knows what he's talking about and is referring to actual facts and figures rather than approximate something out of the blue!

I personally think that most people who buy racing game don't even touch the MP in the first place.
I know I did not touch MP for a long time because I thought that I'm not good enough to compete with those online guys but when I did I found that most of the players was even more stupid than the current AI drivers.

The logical explanation to why so few go online to race is probably that it mostly ends in a crash fest and then they won't return. You spend 30-60 minutes qualifying for a good place on the grid and then the race ends on the first corner due to some idiot crash into you.

That's why we want good AI so we can get our daily sim fix with some close racing situations by dialing in the right amount of resistance from the AI.

Good AI simply behaves better than the general MP driver just look at rFactor 2 and Raceroom.

 

So if people buy more games that they can play ONLINE, what they do? They play them offline most of the time. From the little time they had. And that AGAIN is not connected to numbers.
Because what happens when you play Counter Strike in competitive mode, or participate in a ride in WoW, or when you are part of a fleet in Eve Online? You can't press PAUSE! Yes, you can't. In CS:GO you ruins the game of 4 other people when you leave the game, or you ruin the game of 20 other people in WoW, or you can basically ruin the lives of HUNDREDS other people if you log off or PAUSE your actions in Eve Online.
What we have in A.C. while playing SP? We have the pause button. Which is quite useful when you have 2 kids - 1 is trying to drive with the wheel and the other tying to do heel-and-toe while you play.
So ... you see ... SP is an important aspect of the game.
I think behind my irony you will get the basic idea.
As for MP and my place in it, I was in an online F1 league for 3-4 years, and was RC. So I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

Seems like you use words that you don't know the meaning of and can't even spell.
There is a word for such people but I am not going to tell you what

 

I was only saying that I am part of Marco's off-line numbers even if I never played SP since about 2008 (more or less). Just because sometimes I feel like playing something that is not a sim or just turn off my computer to have some pizza that doesn't make me a SP lover .

Regarding MP I played a lot and I never played "competitive" anything. Just relax man, games are for fun and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
If you lose because of a team-mate it's always the subject for a good laugh .

Regarding your kids I appreciate that they're having fun with Assetto but I am afraid that all Stefano's efforts on making the AI better could be vain if you drive with 6 hands and 6 feets (aw come on, poor bots, that's not fair of you !).
That's probably why AI will never be good enough to beat real human beings .

 

I think the AI is good as a training tool for online. I had my first AI race in probably over a month last night. It was a GT3 race, I was in the Nissan. I found the AI could put me under serious pressure and even though I knew they wouldn't overtake me they had the look of a car on a mission in my mirrors which forced me into making errors, and losing the race despite being 1.9 seconds faster in qualifying, I only did a 10 minute qualy season the AI was much faster in the race and I think the AI just didn't get up to speed in qualy. I think being able to keep up with AI without making mistakes is good preparation for online races and the bottom line is AI won't be able to give a human like race for a long time yet, in any sim.

I'm sure AI is a difficult thing to do, bar the lack of overtaking the AI is good, it looks good on track, makes mistakes, can put in good laptimes and don't take out the player like they used to, although they do seem to still be on rails when contact happens.

 

Its just not that much fun. You can struggle to overtake AI and thats fine, if you dont think about that if you overtake the entire battle is over because he wont try to take it back. They brake on really stupid places. Didnt see any AI loose grip but I did see ONE overtake.

Dont know how long i played now. tried a bit on Nurburg GP, Spa and Nordschleife and its the same story on all tracks. used 96 or 98% on Nurburg and 100% on Spa and Nordschleife.

 

better AI means better offline racing for the casual gamers, etc, and means more money as well, and that means more licences, etc, every penny counts, modding means more sales, some people would never use the Online section and play offline with the AI and if it sucks and go all in one line, is no fun.
i think by now they really know what they do (KS) and they are focusing on AI, some MP issues and features, new content, etc
can´t really ask for more stuff because even they have a few more guys working it´s a matter of resourses, time is money.

 

Yeah and I dont think anyone want a flawless game more than the guys at Kunos so we can be pretty sure they do their best to fix what people reporting.

 

Almost exclusive MP player here, no hate at all against SP players.

I don't understand hate from either side against the other. A good racing title of today should feature both:

1) SP for crappy connections or the ones that just prefer the non-complicated "when-, what-, and whereever I want" kind of racing. The fact that AI will not pull Maldonados on you all the time is also a perfectly valid point.

2) Good MP because that's where the WHOLE gaming market is headed...well, not even headed but it's there. Racing and especially sim racing might be late to the party but if you make a sim today, you better be the first one to include proper MP.

In both points, AC is on the right track. Please open your eyes: we're receiving MP and SP fixes on a regular base, no need to ***** around for either camp ;-)

Cheers
Chris

 

They do, the support response and behavior is excellent and exemplary. I think a lot, I mean really lot of other studios has shown a very large gap for that topic. Of course not every wish could be realized in notime or make sense, but it's refreshing to see that it is possible to be in contact with their players. And the community itself do their best to help others. Well most of them

PS: just my personal opinion

 

Hm -Wonder how this thread came to be about Multiplayer

 

It's a general law of nature

 

That conversation quoted by original topic poster is very discouraging news. I said since long time the problem of the AI is not so much total speed and lap times, but AI's competence - or lack of - to handle certain situations (that other sims can handle, btw).

Sounds absolutely discouraging. For me personally it could mark the end of interest in additional payware DLCs . I do not need more cars and more tracks that the AI cannot overtake and fight on. Just faster AI at least for me was the smallest of all AI problems.

Could push even more people towards other titles. I currently do not drive much at all anyway - but for the past weeks the better part of the AI races I did, already was done in R3E - because of the AI in AC. In R3E forums time and again you liosten to somebody new reporting that he came from AC, that it is a nice sim - but that the AI is what has made him shifting interest from AC to R3E.

I made my somewhat aggressive critical comments on the AI in the past months in the hope to raise some grim motivation to turn the AI into something of better quality. That instead it would be left in quality as it is now, just pushing up lap times - that is the last thing I expected to happen for real - and the worst case scenario.

Disappointing.

It seems that indeed the whole design by which the AI handles a car physically correct on an individual basis, but skill-wise incompetently, has been the wrong decision. A generic AI handling of cars like in other sims, but more competence in handling situations, is the better solution. Several other titles prove that, two or three weeks ago I tried to describe that. The difference you see in replays, yes - but as long as you race the race, you do not realise it. And what player could care whether the behavior of the AI cars around him is result of physical correctness to the very detail, or uses some shortcuts in calculations and some simplified schemes and patterns - what counts is the impression the players gets from the illusion generated. And regarding that, other titles simply score very much better than AC's AI.

Maybe the huge lead by experience with AI programming other developers have over Kunos, shows here. My advise to try getting an external expert on board, stands unchanged.

 

Because if you discuss white, someone will at some point mention black ;-)

 

I wouldn't use the word "great", but they are solid, at least in R3E (which does not mean they also do not take their opportunities when they have a blackout...). And much better than in AC. A nd a new AI with even better behavior quality in R3E already has been announced when I started a thread on that in their forum some time ago. Heck, I know why I already do more racing in R3E now than in AC. AC in principle currently only is a Nordschleife hotlapping thing for me. And once the laserscanned Nordschleife (and Spa) for R3E have been released, even that could change. Sorry to say so, but that's how it is.

 

Does it matter? No. Its a problem present in both scenarios. This, and the "car train building" phenomenon with maybe even the slowest car serving as the locomotive and the faster cars trailing behind attaching to it as waggons.

At least they move in perfectly synchronised harmony, one perfectly lined up in the other's tracks . Nice to see in figure skating. Terrible sight to see in racing.

 

Aris has already stated that they are constantly working on the AI, so I am sure that there will be further improvements to come. Kunos are only a small team, but I believe that they are a very talented team. I am confident that current SP and MP issues will be resolved in time, but we need to have patience. You know, the quality that those online idiots do not have at T1

 

Patience? I have always thought that they didnt know how to brake. The more you know.