Is there something 'terribly' wrong with my driving style?

I have got some pretty annoying remarks for my driving style, from people that have no place or background for those kind of comments. Regular gamers, or people that went with their FWD cars on a real track once, and think they know it all know.

Anyway, what i would like if possible, that someone who frequents track days or has good experience in real driving on a track, preferably with RWD cars, AND is a simmer at the same time.. to comment on my driving/wheel movement..
Is there anything that wrong in the video, when you bare in mind that we as simmers, don't feel all the forces the real driver feels, and i sometimes have to react to rear wheels spinning before it happens etc.
Here's the vid

 

you're driving a GT3 car like its a touring car, stop jinxing your wheel left and right...like watching the lowest ranked player play Counter Strike.

 

It seems that you are pushing too hard. Although Blames comment isn't very helpful, he is on to something. You should try to be a lot smoother with your steering inputs. Theoretically you want to steer into a corner with a certain amount of steering lock and stay there until the apex of the corner and only then release steering lock gradually. You are having to correct your steering input all the time, which is slowing you down. It also unsettles the cars balance and leads to you having to correct even more. I would suggest to try to push a lot less and concentrate on smooth steering. When driving into a corner with the right amount of steering lock (and of course speed), there is no more need of correcting, which leads to beeing able to get on the gas earlier and thus exiting the corner faster. As Jackie Stewart once told James May: "The exit of the corner is far more important than the entry of the corner." So if you go into the corner a little too slow it will not cost much time, but going into the corner too fast screws your line and therefor corner exit, reducing the corner exit speed.

Additionally it depends a lot on the cars behaviour and setup. You suffer from understeer some of the time while your brake points seem to be reasonably early. So I would suggest to try a bit more negative camber on the front suspension as well as some less positive toe or even negative toe. This will get rid of the understeer but will cost some grip while braking. At first this might seems counterintuitive because it might actually increase your problem. When the car has less understeer or none, your steering input has to be even more precise as to not "overshoot" the steering input and clip the inside curb of a corner. But this will enable you to learn and practice the right amount of steering input faster because it will over exaggerate the effect of steering too much into the corner.

You might also try using a different car to practise, one that isn't as direct as a GT3 one is. I'd suggest something like a Lotus Exige or some other street car with little to no downforce at the front. These cars will just understeer massively when you steer too much or too fast into a corner.

I hope that this is helping you somewhat. Greetings and keep going...!

 

Do you have your FF set real high? It's almost like you can't turn the wheel smoothly, but can only do it in small jerks. You even do it before you start to turn in.

As was said. You need to be smoother with the wheel.

 

Too intense, too much unnecessary steering input - like if you're catching phantom slides. Relax and try to be as smooth as possible.

 

I've been simming for 10 years but thanks I'm no alien, but i'm not that bad I can't feel all the forces a real driver feels so i have to preamptively counter steer a bit, to stop the slide.. It looks pretty drastic on this particular combo cause GTR is insane on the Ring, so i'm just trying to stop it from loosing the back end. Is it that wrong though, i've watched the tire cam, the tires are barely moving in what looks like 'jerking' from the cockpit.. All i want to know is it a 'wrong' driving style or just different, cause it helps me keep the perfect line through the corner..

For example i don't think it's that drastic in this vid..

 

the Nissan is a front heavy car, that car turns in while you're on brakes because the rear end gets really light, which is why you don't have to turn the wheel a lot, otherwise you will start understeering, jinxing your wheel left and right does nothing but heat up your tires even more.

 

Just looks like there's lots of needless wobbling to me. Maybe you're reacting to feeling in the steering that doesn't need to be reacted to? Misinterpreting the change in weighting as slides when in fact it's just the car going over a bump or something?

 

FFB looks a little high. I know kunos had an update where they said adjust the FFB in your wheels...but seriously, that's your problem.

 

my steering input is quite smooth. if I could, I would get a vid of a trip around a track with a lot smoother steering, so you can see it is possible. but I can't do vids ATM. maybe someone else?

also I agree maybe your FFB is cranked up too high. which may lead to the false impression that a slide is imminent when it is not.

 

Okay first of all guys, that's a DFGT and there's no possible way that the FFB can be cranked up too high (it just doesn't have enough power to have an effect on your driving)

Now onto the actual driving style, yeah it's pretty odd and if you were doing an endurance race, probably noticeably bad on your front tires.

 

Yeah stop the jerkiness and follow the lines smoother. I jerk the wheel only when i feel the car is about to lose control.

It is like you are uncertain what line to take and you "cover all lines" by steering back and forth fast on corner entry. Maybe bad explanation but its what it looks like. When you know the line after you driven a track enough times you should be able to go very smooth with the wheel, and only counter steer/jerking when pushing real hard as you are about to lose control of the car in corners. Most of the times that happens mid/corner exit for me. Thats where i can jerk my wheel to keep the car steady when pushing hard as the car is about to lose rear grip for example.

 

I'm far from being an expert by I feel you have some classic "over driving" going on Boris. It's OK to manhandle the car a bit in the slower corners but not in the faster ones.

I think most of us can only get so far by intuition, it's worth reading some theory. Some elements of performance driving are obvious but some aspects are counter intuitive, at least for me anyway. I've found Ross Bentley's book to be the best so far.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/076...nding_title_sr?ie=UTF8&sr=8-2&qid=1429336890#

Of course knowing what you should've doing and actually being able to do it is a massive leap, but at least you know the basics of what your trying to attain is correct....

 

Like stated above many useful tips I guess. Less FFB, less steering input, more smoothness. But I get your point. IRL on a track you're 'struggling'a tad more with the wheel than in simracing in general because of the real bumpiness/G forces and under/oversteer(or keeping it balanced). But not that much! Or it has to be Dakar on a rocky/gravel surface @ 100mph or something lol.
The footage you see of onboard driving and the shakiness and struggling with the wheel is always a pro racingcar, from WTCC /WRC via GT and LMP to F1 . On a normal trackday with a more 'normal car' the struggling with the wheel is a lot less because of the less bumpy/less connected ride..

Cheers
Robin

 

Good luck with your churning, you will have the smoothest butter ever made with all that input. You really need to chill out with the wheel, do you have the steering ratio too low with a huge FFB as you should be far smoother with your change of direction, well you are steering left/right down a straight!?!. Do you have push to center on? There is something very wrong with what you are doing or how you have your wheel setup. Have the max steering ratio you can for your wheel, make sure the FFB is not clipping and you have the FOV close to what it should.

All that continuous steering input annoyed me after a few seconds, so I did not see all that much of your video. Chill out, pick a line and steer that line. Do all the work before turning the wheel, so brake, relax, change gear if necessary, steer, apply throttle/brake and smoothly go around the corner. The way you are driving anyone on track would expect you were using cursor keys.


Good luck and chill.

 

If the car is actually so loose (rear oversteer) that you are having to use that much wheel input than I would suggest adding some more rear wing.

 

I like that jerking Boris is doing AC looks more hard core that way

 

Exactly.
Jerky irl in a 'normal' sportscar.




Gebhard is a really fast guy compared to Horst.

Cheers
Robin

 

Congratulations, you're driving correctly. Partly.

When driving on the limit, steering corrections must be made to micromanage the sub 1 degrees of slip angle fault either direction due to tire flex and whatever. If you watch Michael Schumacher driving, you will see this kind of movement in corners. As long as you're capable of doing times at least 0.5 sec from the current WR, I don't see a problem. If you're any slower than that, then you're unnecessarily swinging the wheel around, pretending to feel something. I know because I used to.

There's a catch, though. You're driving with a DFGT. FFB like that in a DFGT is beyond clipping by far. Lower it, and your shaking should also decrease, but I do suggest you still manage the slip angle if that's what it takes to be fast. Shaking like this on anything but atleast an Accuforce wheel is just clipping FFB. It's evident from the violent braking. You should feel the need to steer on the limit when braking, cornering and acceleration, but not this much.

If you don't countersteer when in a corner, on the other hand, you're either a perfect driver driving on a non-bumpy surface in Optimal settings, or just under the limit, where you feel no need to countersteer.

The wheel movement you're doing is correct, but exaggerated, and for some driving styles and some cars, it does not work. For example, I have found the Lotus Elise Step 2 to be very stable and not need too much countersteering, while the Alfa Romeo 4C, a similar car, requires more countersteering to keep the correct line. Setup change on the Elise, perhaps to make it faster, would facilitate more countersteering, I believe. On the contrary, the 4C can probably be tamed as well.

I have zero track experience so take this with a grain of salt, but trust me when I say I'm right.
EDIT: Although one tip. Practice steering into a corner with one smooth movement, to see if you hit the apex correctly. Unnecessary steering at entry will most likely make you take a line into the curb or to the outside, decreasing your confidence, resulting in shaking the wheel to make sure you hit at least one proper line.

Go drive Trento Bondone in the BMW M3 E30 and practice getting under 1cm from the walls with one motion. It will feel like you're gonna crash, and you will, but your confidence will go up.
Shaking the wheel with a purpose is good, shaking it to make yourself think you're doing something is not.

 

Technically fast corrections is what drivers do in real cars to keep the car on the limit (but they do that even faster and at the same time very sharp and precise), isn't it? While in Boris video the car wobbles too much especially in straights (overcorrections). Obviously this can be hardware issues: too slow/weak FFB hardware, input/video lag.

This shouldn't be possible with DFGT or most other wheels.