Open question to Thrustmaster users

Hello.

I moved from T500RS to TGT-2. I noticed differences, obviously, and one "bad" of them was feeling of wheel during long curve after first chicane of Monza. In T500RS I just felt strong, constant, very "uniform" resistance, just wheel being turned at some angle, at high spped.
In TGT its not like that: I feel high frequency "add-on" on top of constant resistance. This makes me mixed feeling, if it shlould be like that or not. At the moment it slightly irritates me, as this high freq micro vibration moves over my arms, also propagates througt cocpit a bit. Also on straigt at Monza I feel it to some extend. Thus I wanted to slightly minimize some "periodic" force, or just whatever setting it could be, just to make it more friendly.

I just need general feedback from other users do you observe any difference of feeling of FFB when changing these parameters in Thrustmaster drivers? It seems that different wheels they have the same set of sliders. I only feel difference when chaging "overall strength" or "constant" (and both seem to be make exactly the same result after identical change). Periodic, spring or damper don't make any change in my case.




In ACC when I change "damper" or "dynamic damping" I also don't feel any difference. "Gain" and "road effects" make difference as expected. I wonder how is that at other Thrustmaster users.

I just wanted to play a bit with FFB to try how can it be adjusted, as there are long conversations, which triggered me. Also Aris in one of videos mentioned "damper" and triggered me (I never had oscillations with T500RS or T-GT2) but I wanted to go opposite and see these oscilations when letting wheel free. Then I realized some sliders just don't make any change.


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Thrustmaster made some description in their FAQ:
CONSTANT:
A constant force will keep the same level in time. When a game decides to apply a force of x% of what the wheel can do, the "Constant" will keep that force at the same level.

Example: A driving simulator game will usually use the constant force to simulate the G-Force. It will create a constant force at 0% but, depending on the speed and the wheel angle, the force will be increased accordingly.

PERIODIC:
A periodic force will vary in time according to the type of periodic effect, amplitude and frequency. Because a periodic force includes an offset that has the same behavior as a constant force, some games will create a periodic force and merge an effect they would render for a constant force (like the G-Force) and a periodic effect (bumping road).

Example: A periodic effect gives the shaking effect on the wheel. At high frequency, you will feel it rumble... but in some cases very low frequency are used to create crash effects where the wheel first turns fully to the left, then to the right and then to the left again, before stopping. Of course, that depends on what the game developers decide.

SPRING:

A spring force is a force that increases according to how far you are from a specific position on the wheel. The basic spring force we could think of is a default spring center where the wheel goes back to its center position when you release it. But the force can be set to negative, which will make the wheel go further away from the center position.

Example: Basic spring force where the wheel goes back to its center position.

DAMPER:

A damper force controls how the wheel will react when it's moving. It is usually used as a (dynamic) friction or if you use it while the wheel gets back to its center position (spring effect), then it will behave like controlling the damping on a spring-mass system. A game will usually use the damper force in order to make it harder for the player to turn the wheel while in other circumstance make it feel like if it's very smooth and easy.

Example: Controlling the force you need to apply on the wheel to rotate it.

The SPRING and DAMPER effects are what we call Dynamic Effects, because they rely on information which depends on the wheel (position for spring or speed for damper). The Dynamic Effects are those effects which benefit the most from hardware force-feedback implementation (compare to software) - like in the T500RS - because you want a fast response based on how the player will turn his wheel.

The CONSTANT and PERIODIC effects are what we call Static Effects. Once the game sets them, they act according to the parameters set or modified through time by the game regardless of how the user turns the wheel. The game might adjust them accordingly, but they are not linked directly to the wheel position, speed or acceleration.

Regards,

 

In my personal experience of many years with T500RS, only constant and damper have any noticeable effect. I set damper to 100, and then control it via in-game damper settings. I definitely feel a difference when changing damper in game. It's very noticeable. Dynamic damper is much less noticeable. You won't feel any damping effects if you set damper to 0 in the TM control panel. You are effectively turning all damping off if you do that.

Constant I leave at 100 and overall strength 60 (which gives the most linear response), and then also adjust overall FFB strength in-game.

 

Hi, the gain in the TM panel is way too high
which has the consequences of stifling all the sensitivity
of other forces.

 

In the Control Panel you're setting the max range the game/sim will be able to use.
If you set something to 0% then you turn it off, even if you set ingame a value greater than 0% it will be off, because the max you allow by driver settings is 0%

Periodic are the details, like going over curbs, bumps, etc.

Spring is part of physics in ACC, camber, caster and toe give the strength of how much the wheels want to turn straight thus centering the wheel. Turning this off disables also the Dynamic Damping in ACC.

Damper is again max range of what the game will be able to use, controlled by the ingame setting "Damper".

In the controller, set these values to 100% and control the range of these "effects" by ingame settings.
@anthony galmiche it does not make sense to these none DD-Wheels to limit the amount of torque in the controller settings. Their limit is by any means way lower than any DD Wheel where you would limit it to 10, 12 or 16NM. The clipping (for non DD-Wheels) is then controlled by the ingame Gain setting.

 

I speak from experience Andy, without resorting to a whole bunch of scientific evidence to validate this, I have always felt it,
TOO MUCH GAIN KILLS GAIN.

 

Well, then of course...

 

Yes, it does, to achieve the most linear response, i.e. the FFB having the same strength at all wheel rotation angles. For example, with the T500RS, you get the most linear FFB response with 60% gain.

 

That's with the default torque curve, right?
To get the best and most out of it, you generate a LUT and use it even in ACC. Then you have a nearly complete straight response line without sacrificing torque and therefor details in loaded situations.

 

Hi I meant in screenshot that periodic/spring/damper don't change FFB on my side doesn't matter 0 or 50 or 100%.

I'm surprised when you wrote you feel difference when changing ingame damper. What driver version you use? I already tried 3 versions (2021_TTRS_3, 2021_TTRS_2, 2018_TTRS_3) and all no change.

 

at the the time I wrote it I had 3.TTRS.2021.
Yesterday I clicked on "search for updates" and got 4.TTRS.2021

 

I'm on 3.TTRS.2021

 

Hi.

Indeed meanwhile update of driver appeared, I installed it. I wonder if new "feature" BOOST works, and how its supposed to work...time will show, I dont play with this yet.

Fun fact: after new driver installation by default overall strength is at 60%. Periodic/spring/damper are at 100% and I leave them (despite screenshot shows different, but I was manipulating-testing).

Now in ACC I can say I feel some difference for damping, but not satisfactionary. Its not due to new driver. I checked with older driver and its the same. So what happend ? Explanation: when overall strength in driver is 100% (which I used, sometimes lowering to 70-80, but never lower) even if in ACC damper is set to 0%, its "too much". So 0% or more was not distingushable. When overall strength in driver is 60%, I feel difference in ACC when changing damper from 0% to 50% . But still already at 0% its too much damping, so when I make 50% foe example, damping is just ridiculous, but yes, I can feel difference. At this moment I just keep trying if intentionally I can reach point, where I have oscillations which Aris showed in video. Then I can go higher with damping to find minimum treshold value.

With new driver in-driver "damper" slider doesnt seem to make difference in my case. It seems like in previous drivers, that periodic/spring/damper are not chaging any feeling of FFB in ACC.

By occasion: I bought P310 sparco rim. That makes countersteer a bit easier. Its bigger in diameter and has better grip, which helps to overcome wheel resistance. I dont say its game changer, but some help/addition I wanted to inform you.



Greetings.

 

Hi with 4.TTRS.2021 twice during one day I had a problem: just during practise drive, entered pause menu to go and maje coffee, came back, want to resume and wheel is not working at all. No inputs are recognized, wheel is free without any resistance. Once relaunched ACC, second time could not even kill ACC - got frozen and caused taskmanager nonresponsive.

Reverted back to 3.TTRS.2021 and so far problem didn't reoccur.

 

Update: Problem occured also at 3.TTRS.2021. I claim possible ACC problem: https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/3x-lost-controller-during-drive.70685/

Let me know how is 4.TTRS at your side.

 

@anthony galmiche , did you mean Master Gain Settings > Overall Strength of all forces? There are 5 gain sliders on the panel; please specify. Thanks much!

 

it's been a long time, yes the main force.

Absolutely, too much gain provides an effect (strength) which will cover part of the subtleties offered by the FFB.
You have to find the right ratio.
Some drivers drive with very little gain only to feel missing details with high gain.
ps: “Wine makes you smart*, but drinking too much makes you stupid”
Well, it’s a bit the same.