Do Super-Cars Really Understeer This Much?

Even someone like Alonso can suffer from that understeer when carrying too much speed on entry, check 3:54 in that video for example:



On the next lap he takes it better, and 0 understeer.

 

I'm not expecting iracing levels of silliness but I'm still finding most cars far to forgiving on the throttle. I turn TC off in options and trackside with Ctrl T but most of the time you can mash the throttle pedal with little or no consequence (usually just creates more "push" so more understeer) Except for exiting very slow corners, even the Zonda is guilty of this. Unless trying to drift or enter corners at ridiculous speeds I find it very difficult to ever break the rear loose.

 

just play with setups the standard sets are all very neutral and easy + supersoft slicks

do some changes to make the car more oversteery and choose medium tires and you will see how the zonda bites you in your ***


The set changes convert so fantastic in the feel and driving, it´s lightyears ahead of all over sims !

 

As a Sim-Noob I have to ask: Are there generel Tutorials or specific Tips for AC, to make the car more "neutral", so less understeering, maybe with more danger of oversteering, without ****ing all settings up? Maybe its from my mostly semi-sim (Forza) background, but I dont like it that understeering is so high in general and especially with the 458.
I cant believe every other developer did it wrong, regarding higher oversteer and far less understeer, which is kinda extreme in AC.
Maybe its, that I personally just cant stand high understeering, but it ruins the fun for some cars.
Which also seem to be too extreme are the differences from race and street cars, where a GT2 feels like an XBow (quite easy, hard to mess up with it) and the road cars (quite hard and heavy, hard to dont mess up with it) like an 2-2,5t boat. I read a few times, too, that AC's race-cars are very easy to drive in comparsion to other sims, but less complaints about the roads cars, besides the under/oversteer contrast..

 

For the 458, try increasing front camber (more negative) and/or the opposite on the rear, or less tire pressure on the fronts and/or more on the rears.

Also, the handling of Forza cars is crap.

 

... because modern roadcars actually are very easy to drive and generally understeer a fair bit. That's why not everybody driving a car is killed within a few years If you get understeer you are driving too fast into a corner. It's as simple as that. Brake early, turn in gently and wait for the weight to shift before fully committing into the corner.

 

One of the things which cause this understeer feelimg, is the sensation of speed. Somehow the sensation of speed in AC is pretty low in the tintops. I find myself not slowing down enough initially in the 458. When I check the speedometer, the values are much higher than what I instinctively feel.

Apart from increasing fov, how could I get a better sense of speed in AC?

Somehow I don't have the issue in the formula cars.

 

The new app that allows you to raise your seating position has helped me a lot.

 

Now I see, that its hardly related with the sense of speed, still the 458 feels extreme, but over all with FOV and positioning it gets better (I used the PCars-FOV-Calculator), even I dont see much (singlescreen with 38° fov), which can cause troubles in turns.
Anyway, with the hood-view its much better and feels even faster and Im much faster and make far less mistakes. Sadly I cant get this feeling/results nearly in the Cockpitview, so I actually regret that I tried the hood-view. The pros and cons differ quite much.
[Again: Im rather a sim-newbe and I explore just basic things]

 

It's not new. Well the whole sim is but the app has been there since first early release.

To the guy above me. 38fov seems rather extreme. Way too close for my liking. What size screen/res/distance?

 

Also thanks for Horus's post of Alex Martin's lap showing the speed of each corner.
Oh my goodness ! Thanks for this setup hint & video with corner speeds! All I done was went 1 psi lower on front, 1 psi higher on rear, and negative .1 more on front camber and BAM.... Now try to stay flat footed everywhere eh!. I understand the weight of the car more now. With this setup, turn in is better, but it makes me get set up for on power turns up ahead a lot sooner because if you do not, you aint gonna make it. Shaving lap times down now. Went from not understanding the car to one of my favorite cars to drive now! Oh yea, watch your replays and speedo when exiting corners. This car is fast. Just simply enjoying car like it should be now .

Seems like the car should jerk a little more when changing gears or view should shift you back when flooring it (is there a way to adjust this?).

 

After the 0.3 update Ferrari 458 has become really unpredictable. The understeer was quite heavy already but now it's relentless and slowing entry speed doesn't seem to effect it noticeably anymore. Front doesn't grip at all now, only constant understeer (almost at any speed) and if you try to force it then it turns into snap oversteer or long 4wheel slide. Camber and tyre pressures doesn't seem to change this behaviour at all only increasing front +toe (tyres facing each other) makes some difference.

I used to do 1.53.x laps in imola before this patch but now it's quite fiddly.

However on a positive note, the Zonda R seems to be better now and more direct and precise.

 

"Super-cars" are made for Super rich, who arent necessarily the greatest drivers. As a rule, almost all of them do tend to understeer.
Many here have the belief that these cars are a step away from a race car, and thats not true at all. Of course you can drive one so that it doesnt display understeer, but thats a technique, not the cars characteristic.

Personally I have never had any issues with 458 or any other AC car when it comes to understeer.

 

I haven't heard anywhere ever that the real 458 had characteristic of "understeer" to it. I'm ok with the sudden loss of traction from the rear when you push hard and the hard snap, that's a quite classic character for a mid-engined car (at least before electronics came). However they ought to turn well too, understeer shouldn't be a huge problem and it definitely became worse after 0.3 patch. Considering that the Ferrari has e-diff and all sorts of clever electronics it's rather weird, unless those are simulated in on some sort of "snow" settings.

 

I think they do, but in AC magic things happen...
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5711/swxj.jpg

 

I haven't noticed a change from 0.2 in the handling. As such I don't experience "constant understeer" at all, I suspect you are entering the corners too fast. You might want to post a video or a replay, otherwise I suggest you read this thread carefully and also take a look at the videos posted to get a feel for why and when the 458 understeers.

 

Every car will understeer if you go into a corner too damn fast, even an F1 car. It's the real world physics. The difference is that in real world you are much more aware of the speed, most of us would probably go into a corner below the car capabilities and say "wow this thing has tons of grip". In simracing very often you go into a corner too fast (because you're not scared of anything and there isnt's much sense of speed), get understeer and moan about it.

 

It's true that you go too fast often in sims. However I tried to go slower, quite a bit slower, and it doesn't change anything. After 0.3 there's now constantly feel of lack of grip at the front and the car doesn't want to turn like it used to. Seems like the front end is constantly just hovering and pushing wide. It could be that I'm just driving too fast but I don't notice the same on M3 e92, it feels just fine and how it used to feel.

 

I've noticed very little difference with the 458 apart from the obviously vastly improved throttle map. It drives beautifully.

As long as you dont overcook your corner entry it is sharp and precise. Any major under or oversteer is purely driver induced. It's clearly set up to be veering towards slight understeer naturally as you would expect with a road car. Can you imagine the average Ferrari driver with a car that wants to oversteer naturally? There would be a lot of expensive scrap metal littering our highways

 

Can you tell more specifically what has changed in the throttle map? Maybe that's what causing trouble for me.