Buying a new wheel

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Spinelli[/paste:font]

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Posted 27 Sep 2015 (edited)

I'm an owner of the CSW V2 + Porsche 918 RSR rim + BMW GT2 Rim...I owned the T500RS for about 2 . 2.5 years...



Is the CSW V2 a step up? Well, it's much smoother and you don't get that thing where you sometimes correct oversteer faster than the FFB can handle and feel yourself sort of fighting against a very soft "wall" of FFB like you do with the T500RS the odd time here and there. The CSW V2 is also capable of outputting more torque (about 7.3 Nm compared to 5.5, or so, Nm of the T500RS).



On the other hand, the CSW V2 behaves very "off" when it comes to sharper FFB effects regardless of game (AC, RF2, SCE, etc.). The FFB of certain bumps and curbs can be so unbelievably sharp that it's as if the motor transformed into a jackhammer and is trying to destroy itself / the base. It's not simply down to more power as I've seen more powerful wheels not do this. it's something to do with how the product outputs FFB - be it a motor thing, an electronic thing, or something else physically about the base other than the motor (gears, belt, I don't know). It's insanely irritating, absolutely fake, and soooo sharp, not to mention loud, that I get embarrased and anxious if I have my window open late at night as it can probably be heard two houses down.



The T500RS felt more alive than the CSW V2. I used to sweat and have to "work" much more with the T500RS than with the CSW V2. Playing the RFactor 2 karts (probably the most intense and exilerating game/car combo in all of simracing), I used to sweat way more using the T500RS than I do now with the CSW V2. Sure the CSW V2 may output more power and be smoother, but it just doesn't have anywhere near the liveliness as the T500RS, it doesn't have the same sort of reactiveness. Believe it or not, the reactions and livliness of the T500RS gave me a much better workout than the CSW V2. The way the T500RS reacted and micro-flicked around was so much closer to any kart in real-life than the CSW V2.



The T300RS/TX, although it has even less power/torque and top speed than the T500RS (while improving on smoothness and friction), keeps the same sort of overall liveliness characteristics as the T500RS. Again, it does so with less ultimate power, but it still has that fundamental liveliness to the way the FFB works.





I really like the CSW V2, I'd probably stubbornly pick it over the T500RS due to it's imprvements regarding smoothness, torque, and resistance, but to be absolutely honest with you, I actually had more "fun" with the T500RS. It was more exhilerating; I, as-well as the FFB, felt more alive using it. It gave the "ilusion" of being more powerful than it's torque output suggests.





I should add one thing though. The diameter of the T500RS' stock rim is 300 mm while wighing around 1050 g whereas my CSW V2's rims are 320 mm with the Porsche rim weighing 1650 g and the BMW rim weighing either 2035 g or 2140 g depending on which revision I used since I used to own both [more details on different Fanatec BMW GT2 rim "revisions" here -->http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/1...-spec-a-vs-bmw-gt2-spec-b-vs-porsche-918-rsr/ pay particular attention to the weight and acceleration results]). Even with a bigger diameter and heavier wheel, I would have thought the CSW V2 would at-least, if not more, than make up for that. Is it purely down to a wheel weight/diameter thing in-terms of the different "styles" of FFB the Thrustmaster and Fanatec products output? Or is it down to the way the different units as a whole (motor, belts, gears, electronics, etc.) work? I have no idea (although I'm leaning to the latter), all I know is the end-result.

Edited 27 Sep 2015 by Spinelli

 

@Jaye
Of course it wasn't easy to persuade my wife to spend 500 bucks for the base plus 180 for the rim, with today prices maybe she would not have agreed...
CSP V1 (bought used) I already had.

But then spending money really started by buying seat, body shakers plus amplifier and Simvibe, TV for the rig etc. But it's worth the money.

 

@XettMan This is one of the points to have stronger wheel, for example I would like to buy 60s style wooden wheel addon, logitech would be much to easy to fight down forces with diameter like that.

@esox71 That guy, Spinelli, seems to have clipping FFB with CSW V2 and not realising that

By the way, found something useful about T500rs, people say that it reach its ultimate torque at 60% setting, going over that does not increase ultimate torque, but enhance mid range. Maybe it is same with T300, guessing.

Yes... money money money. At least we don't need to pay for tires, fuel, mechanics, for entering track and so on

But still you think when it takes more than you make in a month or two, or even a year.

 

Still struggle to become not this addicted

I bet when Fanatec would have an offline store (the headquarter is 30km from me) I would have gone for a visit and I think no chance to resist then

Thrustmaster was after my research the only mid-range provider and I really hope they'll get my base problems solved. I really want to be able to recommend the T300 Alcantara set, because when it's working it is damn awesome for a 500€ budget and a big step ahead from the Logitech feeling.

And for the torque topic:
Tried it once with 100% power in the profiler and I found it too strong. So T300 base isn't weak.

 

@esox71
Fanatec wheels can be parametrized about dampening, spring, force etc.
This affects feeling of FFB. Also diameter and weigth of Rim and of course personal taste.
When I tested T500RS it could not convince me in any way compared to the V2.

I prefer strong and brutal FFB. I need to fight with the wheel. This of course makes me slow, but gives me joy and fun.
I don't think that other people would enjoy my FFB settings.
As strong as possible trying to avoid clipping.

 

went from a g27 to a tx with 599 wheel and csp v2 pedals. No turning back. G27 was a great wheel though.

 

Check and Mate....Simucube is in the works....Lol



PS my Buhler's are Industrial grade motor's and wont be failing in my Mod V1 any time soon.

In the end its your $$...do what you will with it.

 

I'd love to try a direct drive wheel one day.

 

£30km from you? If I was you I'd have Fanatec/Fanatec/Fanatec

 

Whatever man some people don't have that much to spend you know..

 

You n me know what it's about dude

 

Nick to me comes across to be mad about motors in a lot of things(profile pic etc)

 

When it comes to the point im spending thousands of dollars on sim equipment, I think Id rather graduate to autocrossing or road racing.I know thats a whole different ball game when it comes to money but at a certain point id rather use the money for real life lol.

 

Whoa, this is a hint. I see future Maybe not 1 or 2 years ahead, maybe 4-5.

However I have no clue about this technology, much to learn. But looked up for some info about this, and it is quite attractive, never thought that DirectDrive systems can get this close to earth, or I'm clearly not getting something, definitely not understanding what direct drive wheel is.

Fix me where I'm wrong.

• First of all you have to have strong enough DC power supply, right, what is it ? I have no clue about anything related with electricity though.
• Then you need proper place to mount motor, especially if it is going to produce forces greater that 10-15Nm. Well thats obvious.
• Next item is FFB controller, as much as I understand it is like separate computer for motor. Motor and Power Supply plugs into controller, and finally controller plugs into PC.
• Now, you just need save some more for wheel, wheel adapter, pedals, shifter, other gizmos if needed - like screen

Nick, you are tech-savvy guy, could you introduce me/us into DirectDrive wheels world, maybe there are good threads or something about it ? Reading about SimuCube at Indiegogo made me think that days of affordable DirectDrive systems are dawning, not only in terms of money, but in terms of building it as DIY too.

Nice to look at this: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/simucube-force-feedback-from-the-future#/

One of the items of people doing SimuCube, if I'm right. I literally have no idea about any of those items, but seems like they have nice options of motors, like 5Nm, or 10Nm peak torque, that is nice: https://granitedevices.com/store/argon-ac-servo-drive.html

***

I don't understand anything there, but look at the last post by sebj there: http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/21484-simucube/

Is it really possible to have 20Nm set under 1000USD ? Can't be Though still expen$$$ive, but not that much as I've seen Bodnar costs.

Interesting.

 

A complete DD system is still more expensive than Fanatec system.
Also it's not just plug and play.
You must invest a few thousands dollars. A complete system below 1000$ is and will be impossible.

Below 1000 $ --> Thrustmaster
Below 2000 $ --> Fanatec
Above 2000 $ --> DD

But for more than 1 year I did not collect anymore information about DD, so maybe prices dropped?

 

Well thats cheap for 14Nm peak: https://granitedevices.com/store/assembled-simucube-evaluation-kit.html

But I don't understand if it is everything to plug und use.

Idn't really understand these: "A ready-to-use kit for developing a force feedback system based on SimuCUBE and IONI Pro HC drive", does this mean that item is under developement, like prototype ?

"This kit is recommended over "SimuCUBE evaluation kit" in favor of fastest possible kick-starting of the project." Seems like it is so.

 

I am not an expert in this materia. The only thing I could offer is giving you a contact to a person who established his DD system last year if he agrees. So maybe he can give you deeper information.
He runs on his system mainly iRacing, but AC runs also very well.
A few months ago he extended his rig to full motion...

Please tell me if I should ask him when you have serious interest in this materia.

 

Well, I think I shouldn't bother him, my interest is not that serious, and will stay like that for a few years probably. I mean I'm not planning of buying one any time soon.

But thanks, it is not imposible that I'll ask for it in the future

 

PSU, SimuCube, Motor/cables, QR or fixed wheel. that's all you technically need. YES it could be done for under 1000$...but your going to have a cheaper knock off Fixed wheel and No Display or buttons....but Yes it could be done.


I too once looked at an OSW build and seen what seemed like Dozens of little parts that all needed to be connected and work together, I very much didn't understand what was what....Then Simcube came out and made everything THAT much easier and cheaper. I jumped on the Indigogo setup pretty quick, Sourced my Own 600w Psu and plan to build my own case....so i Paid the 289$ for the Ioni pro and the Simucube. Got my Motor directly from Mige in china and the rest is in the works....got a few wheels to play with, Picked up a few teensy LC's to convert my Fanatec wheels over...Now im just deciding on a QR setup.

 

Nice, so thats the servo which was in your picture, yup pretty cheap. At this site even with 100euros shipping it is 350euros.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/130m...2302069341.html?spm=2114.40010208.4.96.Sw1hTe

But thats China, you never know what is what quality when made in China. Still nice to find out that there is wider market on DD wheels. I guess more broken thumbs in the future