Is anyone else faster with the gt2 cars rather than the gt3 ones?

yusupov · Dec 15, 2014

Skybird said: ↑

Only considering my personal - mediocre at best - performance standards: with default setups I can do Spa in best lap times of 2:20 in GT2 cars, and 2:23 in GT3 cars.

And here is the joke: in the LaFerrari I can do it in 2:18. LOL.

Regulations and race classes all fine and well - at least in the sim obviously a lot depends also on individual driving style. Or as the say: its a question of taste. LOL
Click to expand...

actually SS & i had this convo briefly on steam yesterday, i think we both agreed LF should be faster on most any track (i said specifically on race tires, not sure what tires you used),

F430_458_F12 · Dec 15, 2014

speedbee said: ↑

A really nice point! So many information. Well written and a good read. Just one naggle:
F458GT2 is not rev limited. It's air intake limited. You can rev it up to 8.5k RPM, but it runs out of breath at about 7.3.
Click to expand...

Dammit...forgot about the lack of rev-limiting. Got the facts confused. The engine seems to be performance restricted but not rev limited...Kunos properly modeled that revving beyond the shift indicators. My bad.

Skybird · Dec 15, 2014

yusupov said: ↑

actually SS & i had this convo briefly on steam yesterday, i think we both agreed LF should be faster on most any track (i said specifically on race tires, not sure what tires you used),
Click to expand...

I just corrected my time for the LF at Spa by around 4 secs to a 2:15 now... LOL. That thing is so insanely fast on the straights, you could make a stop underway and buy and enjoy some French Fries and ask for a salad afterwards - and still compensate the break and reach the finishing line before that trail of GT-snails... LOL

Unbelievable where the aerodynamics get that grip from to make it still that relatively agile.

john oliver · Dec 16, 2014

Skybird said: ↑

Only considering my personal - mediocre at best - performance standards: with default setups I can do Spa in best lap times of 2:20 in GT2 cars, and 2:23 in GT3 cars.

And here is the joke: in the LaFerrari I can do it in 2:18. LOL.

Regulations and race classes all fine and well - at least in the sim obviously a lot depends also on individual driving style. Or as the say: its a question of taste. LOL
Click to expand...

laferrari can do it in 2:11

yusupov · Dec 16, 2014

im wondering what the non-petrol koenigsegg one:1 can do now

martcerv · Dec 16, 2014

Skybird said: ↑

Only considering my personal - mediocre at best - performance standards: with default setups I can do Spa in best lap times of 2:20 in GT2 cars, and 2:23 in GT3 cars.

And here is the joke: in the LaFerrari I can do it in 2:18. LOL.

Regulations and race classes all fine and well - at least in the sim obviously a lot depends also on individual driving style. Or as the say: its a question of taste. LOL
Click to expand...

GT cars have way more downforce and grip then most hypercars. La Ferrari and 599xx both have actice aero and drs. So down the straights they reduce rear wing drag and gain even more speed. The Zonda R is a bit more race care without any active aero but way more power yet similar downforce to a gt2 car.

GT classes having BOP rules to make racing close means they arent exactly the fastest things around a track. But compare a hypercar and gt car, they may get similar lap times but done very differently. Even the formula Tatuus will get similar times then them but again differently. Way more aero and less power so it is quicker through corners but gobbled up in straights.

Still racing cars together that get their laptimes so differently is not a great thing. Here is an example of what happens when you follow a hypercar in a gtc evora. This was in a handicap league race in one round where the slowest guys were given 599's. I was in the evora gtc and my actual lap times would be 2 seconds a lap faster then the 2 guys in the 599's. They hiwever gained 4 seconds just on the straight so ubless they went off I had no chance of passing them. Here is a sped up replay of the end of my race.

We also have forced pitstops so I pitted early to try and get away from these 2 599's. This didnt work as I messed up my pit stop and also my lap pace wit a full tank and hards was now not much quicker then them on softer tyres and lighter fuel load. I was real happy when they both pulled out of the pits ahead of me to continue on the punishment.

Mogster · Dec 16, 2014

Wiki has the 458 GT2 8 seconds faster than the GT3 round the Nordschleife.

But that is Wiki

Justin Cruze · Dec 16, 2014

speedbee said: ↑

A really nice point! So many information. Well written and a good read. Just one naggle:
F458GT2 is not rev limited. It's air intake limited. You can rev it up to 8.5k RPM, but it runs out of breath at about 7.3.
Click to expand...

Wait what? Seems like I've been revving the daylight out of it for no good reason

mistery · Dec 16, 2014

martcerv said: ↑

T

.
Click to expand...

Looks like your average sim MP grid filler.

Blamer · Dec 16, 2014

F430_458_F12 said: ↑

The reason lies in the rules the FIA writes for the GT racing class. From what I know, manufacturers enter their cars into a series to develop performance aspects of their company. Before entering, they have to prove to the FIA that the car in question is a production model that has sold/can sell/will sell thousands of models. The race cars must feature original chassis, bodywork, and dash boards, but can be modified for safety and performance in the race. Old regulations had cars retaining round steering wheels and other more road-like auto parts, but the rules have relaxed, allowing cars like the SLS GT3 to use non-standardized wheels.

The title, GT3 relates the class of car and subclass. naturally, the smaller the number in any racing series, the more performance ideal the car is. Hence, F1 is better than GP2, GT1 (now defunct) is better than GT3 and so forth.

The M3 is not faster than the 12C as a road car. This is the interesting aspect of GT racing: the cars as base models do not need to be similar in performance. However, as a race spec machine, they have to be homologated in order to be competitive. So, the performance upgrades on the M3 are much higher relative to the base car used as say the Ferrari 458, an already powerful car that actually has performance drops from the FIA regulations to keep it from emerging with an advantage. For example, the 458 GT2 has rev limitations, because Ferrari builds an engine so advanced and strong that it would give the car a performance edge according to the FIA. The GT3 version, higher revving, has ballast in order to keep it from out accelerating other cars...which it still manages to do (watch any of the recent SPA 24H races). The SLS GT3, a heavier base car, receives less restriction in order to make it competitive.

Also, teams can choose to take different paths in the rule book for performance. For years, the Z4 GT3 has been one of the lightest cars out there, but it lacks top speed and general acceleration in certain turns. BMW chose to maximize the car's downforce, sacrificing speed for cornering stability and reliability. The Z4 has extra aero parts all over the place, many more air directing channels, a livelier rear to help turn rotation of the car, and a torquier engine for power out of the turns. The Aston Martin GT3, however, is a heavy block in corners, esp. hairpins from what I understand. But it has grunt into the turn, much more stable, and has incredible top speed like the Ferrari.

The big question in all of this is...why is there GT racing at all? It seems weird (and sometimes still does for me) that imbalanced road cars attempt to become performance balanced in racing (yes, I personified cars!). The thing is, there are groups who don't want to see the auto industry turn strictly to prototype cars for racing. These performance-driven autos have largely become technology races, and many feel the competition is lower than in other kinds of cars. From F1 in the 80s and 90s, to Group C in the 70s, to Le Mans prototypes in the 2000s, the technology race has shifted between these and more brands than I'd care to mention. And the question is: does man need technology in order to race? Many say no, and it is this answer that keeps fans supporting commercial-cars-turned-race-cars like WTCC, Rally, GT racing, etc.

Plus, many people feel prototype racing is a very distant world from the fans who support it. Whereas in GT racing, many might very well own the base car of their favorite team's race version, no one will own anything close to an Audi R18 TDi, or a Ferrari F14T. This capability of the consumer owning a part of the racing car is a very powerful marketing tool, as it creates an enormous incentive to become a fan of the GT series and support the teams through donations, purchase of merchandise, attendance of races, etc. The drivers, too, are primarily amateurs (this is fast changing as prototype drivers join the GT crew), a thing the fans love, since they are approachable and do not require the kind of security that a Lewis or Vettel does.

For example, I have become very interested in Turner Motorsport during my ownership of BMWs and BMW merchandise. I own the base model of one of their past racing cars, and it is rewarding as a fan to know I drive a car which they turned into a performance tool. No fan of F1 can say that unless they own an Ariel Atom or one of the kit open-wheel cars on the market. And who owns those? Not many. But there are many more people who own Corvettes, M3s, etc.

Regarding GT classes, the FIA ranking system is complicated at best, a nightmare at worst. It amazes me that there are any races at all with the crazy rule system they have. One thing that hasn't changed in a while is the fact that GT3 is always on the bottom. While its rules have changed substantially over the years, GT3 cars have always been slower than the other higher classes, partly because the manufacturers within the class allow amateurs to buy ready-made race models. For instance, if I had $350,000, I could afford a nicely appointed McLaren GT3. Or for a little more, an Aston Martin Gt3 and so on. No one can buy a GT2 or GT1 car, as these autos are intended for racing professionals only and feature less driving aides, more technology, and are generally harder to drive at speed than GT3 cars.

One of the confusing things about the GT classes is the FIA's need to change the names all the time. GT1 was short lived and went the way of the dodo (which still ticks me off), and was replaced by GT2, a struggling class in 2010 where the cars raced prominently in Le Mans and SPA. Later, GT1 was resurrected with bastardized GT3 cars called GT1. Then that died. Then GT2 died, but was resurrected with the dawn of the WEC, where the FIA renamed the class GTLM or GTE for the purposes of distinguishing it from the shorter GT3 races that drew amateur drivers.

Then things got even weirder! GT3 races became longer as the VLN developed into its own series, GT3 bumped GT2 from SPA, and Bathurst and Dubai became exclusive stomping grounds for GT3 class. Plus, there are amateur drivers now who drive GT2 cars, as per the AM class in WEC, and in certain small series where such drivers as Martin Lanting race exclusively for Ferrari. Strangely, though the class names, race lengths, and drive skills change, the cars' performance doesn't change much, as GTLM cars have less HP, but significantly more technology and aero capabilities. In fact, the FIA has taken note that GTLM cars are getting so fast that they are pushing old GT1 times at certain circuits like Le Mans, where such drivers as the late Allan Simonsen broke the 4:00 mark in his Ferrari.

I hope this answers some of the questions floating out there
Click to expand...

Very informative,
thanks for sharing!

Skybird · Dec 16, 2014

john oliver said: ↑

laferrari can do it in 2:11
Click to expand...

That Ferrari was not driven by me! I can mess up any car you give me. Promised.

Digital Aura · Dec 16, 2014

SeriousSpy said: ↑

That's irrelevant.

The Evora GTE isn't actually a GTE class car, it's just called that. The actual GTE class car is completely different. https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6087/6151468958_3b921f925e_z.jpg
Click to expand...

WHY!? Why would they just 'call' it that when there's an actual class of performance insinuated by those letters? This is why many of us are soooo confused by all the prefixes and suffixes. GT, GTX, GT2, GT3, GTE, GTLM, GTC and not to mention GTR .... I almost need a handy dandy chart to enjoy watching any race these days.

F430_458_F12 · Dec 16, 2014

Digital Aura said: ↑

WHY!? Why would they just 'call' it that when there's an actual class of performance insinuated by those letters? This is why many of us are soooo confused by all the prefixes and suffixes. GT, GTX, GT2, GT3, GTE, GTLM, GTC and not to mention GTR .... I almost need a handy dandy chart to enjoy watching any race these days.
Click to expand...

If you think the designations are bad, wait till you start learning about the regulations between classes and how they restrict the cars. BOP is one of the most contested things...Audi won 24H SPA, the next year they had cars that could barely keep up, it's like the FIA punishes winners.

bondyboy · Dec 17, 2014

F430_458_F12 said: ↑

If you think the designations are bad, wait till you start learning about the regulations between classes and how they restrict the cars. BOP is one of the most contested things...Audi won 24H SPA, the next year they had cars that could barely keep up, it's like the FIA punishes winners.
Click to expand...

Same thing happened with Yuasa Honda in BTCC this year, turbo was turned down so much that they just couldn't keep up on the straights

LATE4APEX · Dec 24, 2014

GT2 M3'S at Imola is my fav right now.

But would like some thing different thrown in, anybody know other GT2 cars in AC ?

Thanks, LATE4APEX

SeriousSpy · Dec 25, 2014

LATE4APEX said: ↑

GT2 M3'S at Imola is my fav right now.

But would like some thing different thrown in, anybody know other GT2 cars in AC ?

Thanks, LATE4APEX
Click to expand...

Well, obviously the Ferrari and P4/5, there's also the free URD Corvette, and the paid URD EGT mod, which includes a totally-not-a-Porsche, Aston Martin, SRT Viper and BMW Z4 GT2.

LATE4APEX · Dec 25, 2014

SeriousSpy said: ↑

Well, obviously the Ferrari and P4/5, there's also the free URD Corvette, and the paid URD EGT mod, which includes a totally-not-a-Porsche, Aston Martin, SRT Viper and BMW Z4 GT2.
Click to expand...

Thanks Serious, don't know how I missed the Ferrari GT2, don't see any other AC cars labeled GT2, but the Ferrari will be good.

Thanks, LATE4APEX

Forum	Title	Date
ACC PS4/PS5/XB1/XBX/S General Discussions	Anyone else notice pink (missing textures) and street lights at Monza turning off as you pass them??	Dec 19, 2023
ACC Physics	Anyone else finding the Alpine being much faster than any other GT4 cars since 1.9?	May 30, 2023
ACC General Discussions	Does anyone else think that the AI is nigh phenomenal?	Oct 11, 2018
ACC Controls & Peripherals	Does anyone else experience "veering" to the left with an Xbox Controller?	Sep 15, 2018
Chit Chat Room	Anyone else wants more Hillclimb tracks?	Oct 13, 2016
Console Lounge	Anyone else noticed this?	Sep 5, 2016
Chit Chat Room	Anyone else getting dizzy when drifting?	Oct 19, 2015
Chit Chat Room	Anyone else using urd egt mod and having ai issues, cars crashing/retiring?	Aug 22, 2015
Chit Chat Room	Anyone else experience a substantial boost in performance after todays nvidia driver update?	Jan 22, 2015
Chit Chat Room	Would anyone else like to see a car 'class' filter?	Jan 2, 2015
Multiplayer Bugs & Issues	Acserverpackager.exe stop working for me in 1.0.4 rc - anyone else?	Oct 22, 2014
Graphics and Models/Tracks Bugs & Issues	Anyone else experiencing post processing looking worse?	Oct 16, 2014
Chit Chat Room	Booking issues...anyone else getting dropped fields?	Jul 9, 2014
Chit Chat Room	Has anyone else had their g27 break... after one day?	Jul 3, 2014
Chit Chat Room	Kick for ping server owner responsibility only, not anyone else.	May 25, 2014

Log in or Sign up

Is anyone else faster with the gt2 cars rather than the gt3 ones?

yusupov Alien

F430_458_F12 Alien

Skybird Alien

john oliver Simracer

yusupov Alien

martcerv Alien

Mogster Alien

Justin Cruze Racer

mistery Hardcore Simmer

Blamer Hardcore Simmer

Skybird Alien

Digital Aura Racer

F430_458_F12 Alien

bondyboy Alien

LATE4APEX Alien

SeriousSpy Racer

LATE4APEX Alien

Share This Page