Are AC street cars too easy to drive on the limit ?

Must be why it's so hard to correct slides with direct drive wheels.... Oh wait.

 

Then why people do lust about those super steering wheels which can do 15-20Nm of torque or more ? Is Logitech G series a faster controller ? I always thought that wheels with more torque are more realistic and gives richer information about cars handling. Ofcourse 20Nm probably is going to require some muscles power, but thats achievable, just do your physical fitness

 

just do the test .. I remember few years ago trying it and I was surprised how easy it was with minimum FFB (still some friction so your movement can be more precise) .. not saying it is better than good FFB it just wasn`t what I expected ... also I`ve never used DD wheel ..
Also some aliens preffered to run minimum FFB ..
Perhaps correcting weight transfer and counter weight transfer that is not significant enough to really upset the car along with tendency for car to settle itself makes it looks like harder work than if you don`t feel it, don`t correct it and yet don`t have issues with stability ... don`t know ..

 

The point here is not lighter or heavier, direct drive or whatever. The point is that your controller determines your ability to control the car so if you want it harder you can make it harder to counter for the lack of forces that are in the real world. This is a sim and it doesn't matter how bad you want it to be real it remains a sim. Sometimes I think that threads like this one are more about showing off someone skill than about the game itself. Cause it's a game you know and it feels different depending on the controller. This doesn't mean that the devs should not try to make it feel more real. This only means that the devs will have a hard time to make it real for everyone when everyone is tweaking the controller to better control the car and then, when they successfully did it to the point they can catch all slides, they come here complaining that the game is too easy .

 

Slip angle's also different from steering angle; in a low speed corner you can turn the wheel 180 degrees and still not be at peak slip angle, in a high speed one you turn it 45 and you're there. Trying to correct a slide when you have to pull 180 degrees of lock out is harder than when you only have to go 45 degrees.

 

That video actually makes me think assetto corsa does a damn good job of simulating. Set the road temp to 12 or 13 degrees, crank the grip down below 95, and ramp up your ffb. I bet you can't breeze through Nords with 1 finger. Most of the drivers in that video took corners poorly and reacted incorrectly.

 

High FFB (like you get in most DD wheels) will allow you to feel any slides / changes in grip happening much sooner, and correct for them (mostly wheel does itself) before they turn into bigger slides, low FFB doesn't give you this ability.

The reason (IMO) why some aliens prefer to use minimum FFB is because they drive in such a way that they never get the car into to slide in the first place, mostly driving off audio and visual cues instead, and don't want higher (in-consistent) forces to stop them using their controller to place the car the way they need to.

 

I know and I agree ..

 

I use low FFB effects because I want my G27 to survive intact, and also because I have sensitive neck and upper back muscles that cause headaches if the wheel is resisting me to any great extent.

 

When I switched from non-ffb to ffb wheel I first used very light ffb. In hindsight that was a big mistake. The ffb needs to be strong enough so the wheel can rotate quickly. Too low ffb and the wheel becomes too slow which makes driving unintuitive. In countersteering situations it can be very annoying when the wheel is just so slow that it is basically fighting you in both directions. .So nowadays I use something medium heavy. Enough force to make the wheel rotate quickly but not so much that I 'd need to worry about clipping or damaging my wheel. High ffb can be fun too but personally I'd be worried about what hitting those kerbs at high speeds does to the wheel for example. If the osw wheels drop comfortably under 1k€ I might consider building one but at the moment I don't know any better so I'm happy with my plastic fanatec.

 

Ah, so higher FFB helps with countersteering? I will have to experiment a bit to see how far I can push it without causing side effects....

 

This is what I'm getting for a slip angle curve in current AC

 

So we are over the ''its too hard ergo realistic'' falacy and now we chase our tails with the its too easy?

Sim racers...

 

How are you extracting the lateral forces?

 

I don't. It's lateral G on a grossly understeering car that has close to zero lateral weight transfer.

Good enough to get the shape of the curve but I wouldn't try putting any units on the y-axis.

The rest is about killing as much variables as possible, dead aero, zero camber, constant speed etc...I could do different loads and see if I get a more peaky curve

 

Yeah, the curve doesn't seem like it's dropping enough on the graph ?

About FFB... I use as much as I can without clipping all the time (except kerbs and big bumps). And I use the real car's steering rotation and ratio (so I let the game do it's things, 900 in profiler and 860 in-game, to account for the G27's deadzone on both ends).

So no, higher FFB doesn't make it harder. Unless you set it in a way that will make it a jerk and clip fest. Then quite frankly you're not achieving anything.

 

Ok, pretty much what I did some time ago. I still think that the dropoff in lateral grip isn't a problem there, far from it ... maybe in longitudinal direction. But still we are talking about pure lateral/longitudinal, the thing is more about getting combined forces right...

 

I am not sure if I have asked this question before, but......what is FFB "clipping"?

 

there is a whole thread on it here .. with application helping you to detect clipping and set your FFB strenght ... basicaly if FFB output is higher than your steering whell can handle, you are clipping those informations and not really helping your experience like playing your favourite song louder than your speakers can reproduce ..