Go Faster - 4 Weight transfer part 1 at game&track YT channel

Interesting how I never thought about that line on Zandvoort and I never go outside on Vallelunga.

 

Same for me V8, I will try the inside line at Zandvoort, but at Vallelunga I only tried the outside to see the difference and then kept to staying in the middle.

 

no worries!
it's just so great to really feel your enthusiasm.
I think you make for a great teacher. Really.

 

Ok, watched the video and gave it a go myself. First upfront: very nicely done.
Also very clear that this is only the start and this is only the first part in a chain of domino effects.
Thanks for the nice explanations, because dampers, springs and ride height are usually the things a refrain from changing because of said domino effects.

Nevertheless, I gave it a go with your settings and noticed a few things.
First I noticed that I really suck at driving this car.
I started with your tyre pressures and had real issues with the car. Was very unpresice and missing grip. Noticed that the pressure was almost 3 clicks below optimum for me.
Well, could be the ambient and road temperatures (26°C/25°C for me) influencing the tyre temps and pressures and of course my driving style.
Went up one click first, then 2. Then it was feeling ok for me.
Looking again at your video, I noticed that the pressure is almost always close to the blue and barely touches green.
Not that it matters too much for the suspension setup, just was a bit surprised, especially since the slightly underpressured tyres had quite pronounced effect for me.

The second thing is that I really didn't like the handling of the lowered car.
Yes, it's better than the standard setup, but was too oversteery for my taste. Especially given the lose diff setting in the standard setup.
I stiffened the diff to 50% and softened the suspension at the rear by one click (+adjusting the right height), which felt much much better.
But ok, I guess that's something for the next video.
Fun thing though, I noticed that in some corners (e.g. T4, the hairpin) I'm faster if I'm drifting through the corner. Sure, the stiff diff supports this, but had to smile at that one.
Don't want to make the diff too stiff though as that unsettles the car in the last corner (obviously tried 60% there).

Finally, may I make a suggestion for the (one of the next) video(s)?
One thing that always bothered me with the setup hints was the text for the ARB.
Basically it says something like "when stiffening the ARB, you will usually lose some grip, but that is not always the case. It depends on the suspension geometry.".
(Sorry if the text isn't correct word by word, but I've got the german translation of that and not the english original.)
I read that a few times and was always like "thanks, but that's really not helpful".
I also noticed that most people tend to set the ARBs to lower values, possibly because that is easier to handle.
However, I do remember a video from like 10 years ago, where a race driver compared the 911 GT3, 911 GT3 RS and 911 GT3 RSR (the last one being a race car).
He said something like "in Wippermann, the RSR takes several seconds off the two other cars due to it's much stiffer chassis".
(I guess he meant Wippermann/Eschbach/Brünnchen, though.)
Ever since hearing that I was wondering why in exactly that section of the track the ARB matters that much and especially: what do you have to do to get it really working?

As a physicist I started to think a lot about how each part in the car should influence the other and how a setup philosophy might look like that is dedicated towards stiff ARB, but I never really came to a conclusion.
Then you guys brought out the Porsche packs and there were quite a few cars that had a really stiff chassis and really stiff ARBs, like the 911 GT3 R, the 911 RSR or the 911 GT3 Cup.
One remarkable thing on these cars was also that they used insane camber (iirc the real camber of the Cup Porsche was in the range of -5°) quite honestly, that made my head explode.
I really don't get it, why that works.
Maybe you can say a few things about that?
I mean yeah, a stiffer chassis will result in more lean of the whole car onto the outer tyre, but it's also expected that the whole car leans less overall.
Especially in cars with a very low center of mass like those Porsche racing cars. I really wouldn't expect such a high camber to be beneficial there.

In addition, I would really appreciate if you could explain the quote part of the setup hint above a bit deeper.

 

I've been starting to read the info popup when doing the suspension setting. Make more sense than those you find in guides.

 

I find some AC setup descriptions more less helpful than others.
(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist )

 

Well it's hard to pack a book into a small text box. Especially if you're addressing people who don't really want to read but drive.

 

Another fantastic video Aris.

Need more..need more

 

+1

If there's one thing I want to understand in this world before I turn senile it is camber, and its correlation on different types of tyres and cars.

Why is -5° said to work on the Porsches with the heavy rear? In my mind the inner shoulder should explode with all that load.
Rumor has it, that static camber is best set around -3.4 for the other GT2/3 cars. Why not -5° on them as well?
How do I know if a car need more static camber due to suspension geometry changing under compression, or the other way around?
Does it make any sense to work with the dynamic camber reading of the suspension app during driving, to read the actual camber during cornering? If so, what to look after?

Every time I dig my head into camber it makes me dizzy!
Seriously

 

@matz_AUT I made a guide. It work on some car, but get you a basic to get an idea how to set them by feel. It's kind of frustrating as pressure & alignment result an extremely large disparity of time on some car & track condition. I am aware it's not very good.

Although I tested without using the tire app & used my guide as reference. Finding the optimal PSI without it by only heading at the pit seem to have turned well which is a good thing.

@Aristotelis I'll look into McPherson suspension camber curves. I'm often stuck to ignore the same user.


Reversed when very low

 

tyres & gear ratio:

(disregard lap 4, I closed some apps that were still on from an earlier online session)
laps 7 and 8 I lost half a second in T3 each lap

springs and BB like Aris:



I was rather ok with the stock setup with pressure and gear ration adjustments, even hit the apex rather good. My laps were quite ok in pace and rather good in consistency.

The stiffer suspension and BB shifted towards the rear made the car rather more snappy for me.
I had more front locking with this setup, small brake pressure differences made the tyres lock quite a bit more faster. Also I had more oversteer on turn-in / corner entry and also had difficulty to get good acceleration out of the turns.
Overall less consistency with the stiffer setup, although I immediately notice how the car reacted better/sharper to my inputs.

Will do some more laps.


Edit: Watching the replay it seems I might have tried to 'carry the slide' out of the turns with the stiffer suspension.
That kind of works with the soft springs, but seems to unsettle the car on exit.

 

@Aristotelis Wow thanks, indeed the control arm is so low that under compression the negative came reduce instead of increasing. Now it make much more sense to run with higher camber.

It confirm my camber guide wasn't so useless after all. I will update accordingly.

 

2 laps of the different setups.

soft suspension:


firm suspension:



But I just noticed that for some reason the selected gbW mod weather seems to have a bug and track temp was only at 18°C.

 

OK, I did another run.

soft:


firm:


middle, front springs 44 N/mm, rear 33 N/mm:



The soft setup I still enjoy most, it very fun to drive this.

The firmer suspension feels twitchy to me, set BB to 67% in my 2nd attempt instead of 66% in the first run. The turn-in oversteer was reduced, but still it feels like the rear is too stiff and the rear feels loose into turns and mid-turn until you apply some slight throttle (as if the rear wheels were too slow).


The in-between setting actually brought me the better response of the car while being able to drive the car very consistent, but still, the soft suspension was best at brake feel and threshold braking.


Maybe I'm just not the driver for a (super) stiff suspension and need a looser one.
This could also be the reason I like to drive road cars more than GT2/GT3 race cars. Although I (have learned to) like to drive open-wheelers now, but more for hotlapping and not so much to actually race them, because once I start to push GT2/GT3 or Formula cars I'm very likely to overdrive them or just spin out, while road cars and GT4(-like) race cars I rather like to race.