Go Faster - 4 Weight transfer part 1 at game&track YT channel

setups are mainly for you to feel confortable with the car handling..therefore very personal most of the times. on f1 and prototypes it can shave many seconds, but not much everywhere else.

 

Just to add:
For the stiff suspension I also had to adapt my driving quite a bit.
In the first run I still tried to drive the Escort like I'm used to which probably was the issue of my slow and inconsistent lap times. It worked better in the 2nd attempt once I drove the car differently, but it was unnatural to me to do this and more like a task than a joy to drive.

I might just be used to the soft suspension of the Escort, but with those controlled slides out of the turns it's the most natural and joyful driving of the three setups.
(and definitely the one to use if I just want to 'hoon around' a bit, which I do in this car or the Audi S1 E2)

Though the medium setup was the better one to use for consistency and precision while I still enjoyed the behaviour of the car.

 

Thanks. Indeed, it looks like camber is decreasing under load.
Need to fire up RaceStudio to have a look at how the camber develops during a lap.
Pretty sure it will still end up with very high camber compared to other cars, but at least it might not be as insanely high as it looks from the pits.

May I suggest that you add info about the suspension to the specs in the showroom?
I knew that Porsche was using McPherson suspension for the newer cars (although I'd have to look up when they started using it, possibly in the 90s), but for most cars, I have no idea.
Or is it only Porsche that is using this and the rest is using double wishbone?
(Except for the open wheelers of course, which normally run push-rod, iirc.)

Thanks, nice find.

(Although I guess I'm the user you're ignoring, so this won't get through.)

 

Great addition to the series @Aristotelis using the perfect combination to illustrate

Really looking forward to the time when you get on to race-craft though, The hot-lappers have had enough training now, time to get them thinking about how to handle this new found speed they have when there's a few obstacles in the way (read competitors) I would suggest that the first video in this series is named "The race is not won at T1 L1"

Keep em coming, excellent stuff.

 

Technically if I higher the rate(make the spring more tight), I should reduce the height of the car since there's less suspension travel from increasing it? Make sense it's on the same tab.

 

Depends on the car, I'd say. For most older cars and possibly street cars, it's a good thing to keep the actual ride height leveled, like Aris explained in the video.
However, on some cars I found it advantageous to decrease the real ride height as this resulted in a higher real camber of the car and better handling in the corners.
Unfortunately, I can't remember which car that was.

Also on high-downforce cars, the ride height plays a role in the downforce setup, which you need to take into account as well.
But normally in these cases we're talking about a few mm of adjustments rather than the tens of mm that you can observe with the Escort.

 

Yes, definitely.

I did a few laps in the 911 GT1 around Nordschleife yesterday. My original setup was very borderline with the ride height (click 8 iirc).
So I did experience some understeer under turn-in when braking, especially when trail-braking due to aero stall (observable through the wings app).
It was acceptable as it was not a big issue and could be worked around by applying a bit of throttle early in the corner and avoiding trail-braking.

However, yesterday I also did some laps with +1 click on the ride height and that made a huge difference.
Much better turn in (as the aero didn't stall or at least not as often), thus I gained a bit of time in each mid-slow corner.
However, even that one click made a noticeable difference in high speed and mid-to-high speed corners, e.g. like Schwedenkreuz, where I really had to lift while previously it was flat out.

Hard to tell which approach was faster, though.
But yes, one click can make a big difference.

BTW, it's a bit of a shame that you can't access all variables that are shown in the wings app through the telemetry.
e.g. the cl and cd values are not available or I didn't find them. But ok, that would be rather a question for Stefano.

 

My laptimes looks similar, below 2:01, I even had the stock setup below 2min, with same conditions as Aris.

@Aristotelis, another great video mate!
My constructive critisism lies with the laptimes Schnipp and I share on stocksetup: it would be great if you could add the delta-app in the videos, so we can see where (and why) you improve your lap and where you actually loose time, constistent or not, stock setup or altered.


Cheers!

 

@Berniyh and @Tberg if i may, as a positive criticism to your effort on your comments to what Aris is trying to help us with in video #4. All he his addressing is how, giving us a method, to those off us with no experience in set up, as what to do to play with spring load. If you already have experience and/or know better, good for you. Aris was clear that this is a first step of many, to get a better understanding of the whole process.
So if you are faster than him with a different set up, I am happy for you, but this thread is about understanding how and in what order change parameters in a car to improve our performance with that car, not if doing it an other way is faster than Aris.

 

I didn't want to imply that there is anything wrong with Aris' video.
As he said, weight transfer is very complex and it's not 'one setting/setup' for it.

It just turns out that I'm quite ok with the default setup, maybe because I'm just used to it by driving the car this way in the past.
Also a slightly stiffer suspension brought me to what Aris' got with a very stiff suspension in terms of car control and precision, but in my case not so much an increase in fastest lap time rather than have more consistent lap times with a slight increase in lap times.


@Cote Dazur
I know you didn't address me, but spring rates until now was one thing I never really used until now, this is rather new territory for me as well, despite being a rather advanced driver.

 

Or even show the telemetry?

That was not my intention, sorry if it made that impression to you.
Also, I wasn't really faster (I think my best lap time was 1:59.4, so barely 2 tenths faster).
Just wanted to give my impressions of having my own go in the car.

Regarding the experience. You can never have enough experience with the car setup and the discussion with Aris does help to understand the links between the setup options in a better way.
Also it might help Aris with the next videos regarding what to say and what to focus on, we'll see.
I do have some experience with car setups, but as you may have noticed from my posts in this thread, there is enough missing that I can get confused here and there.

 

thank you for your reply to my post, I appreciate every body efforts to help us all and yes since Aris is teaching a class with first, second, third grader is gets complicated quickly. Your reply also made me realized that even those with experience are doing some with intuition as much that with clear knowledge.

 

It also shows how tricky it gets and this isn't as much a 'copy & paste' thing that kind of works for everybody.

1) Basic techniques: set tyres pressures so they are at optimum pressures and work on you racing line & reference points

2) engine power graph and gearbox setup: know when to shift and how to adapt the gearing to the track

Those are pretty easy things to adjust and you can copy them as they are or with minimal adjustments.

But they way the weight transfer changes the cars behaviour is a much more delicate thing to achieve.



My take on this video:
Take it as a guideline that shows what and how the spring rates influence the weight transfer and from there on test different settings. If one click is a change that you like, then you know the direction you need to go and repeat until you find the optimal setting or if you can't find a sweetspot try the best compromise you can get.

 

That's true, if you just go to a track day you probably don't know too much about the pressure, what it should be and how it is while driving.

I haven't been close to racing teams, but I guess they have recommended tyre pressures provided by the manufacturer and measure/monitor those.


One thing I have to say though, as I started with AC I always had trouble with the SM on the F40 as the tyres were up to temp. The first time I ran an app that showed ideal pressures I knew why.
The default pressures are ok for ST and ST90 tyres, but way too high for SM tyres. After changing to the correct pressures for SM tyres the F40 was very different, much more predictable.


But yes, without apps (or without knowing the ideal pressure) it's quite a challenge.

 

I fully understand. It´s just obvious, to me, that Aris is faster in the later laps not only because of changed setup. With delta app, there´s a little more for us to analyze, comparing what actually works and why.

TBH, I´ve never touched springs in AC, I'm very conservative here. Regarding this video, I found Aris's settings too stiff as well, for my driving. The stiffer setup is faster, but it's easier to oversteer or loose traction on especially Zandvoort. Something in between default and Aris's settings seems faster for me. So I actually both learn something and dare venture into more of the setup department, because of these videos. I hope Aris's takes it as a compliment, and that the request for delta is only because I get motivated to analyze even further.

Cheers!

 

We would feel it and also notice the gain and loss in lap time, but it would take forever to adjust to each track/car combo and also different track condition, with the proper app on screen, 2laps and you are almost there.
This new step in video 4 is the first one that is not black and white, as we have seen from the comment in this thread, we are entering a personal preference and different path area. I think from now on, if we have followed the previous steps and learned how to walk, we are learning how to run.
I petty those who skipped the first steps, as evolving straight from crawling to running, it will not be pretty.