Minorating.com (drivers thread)

im not sure about this, as part of a system maybe but not as a replacement. it is an incentive not to qualify for a start. it would be an issue for aliens who tend to lead by quite a way. it would make it even more frustrating when you get stuck behind those overly aggresive people who weave around trying to defend a few seconds off your pace and it could make people even more eager to try and overtake at all cost, to improve their grade rather than picking a safe way passed the car infront. plus, as mentioned before the main benefit of MR is to provide more clean and fair racing and that means people racing at and above their grade, this could push even more people to race with grades lower than their own as they would get more of an MR boost from lower grade drivers.

 

I don't think so since only clean passes count and also if one sees somebody waving and being funny, he shouldn't force the overtake anyway until it's safe to do so (if it was real he'd be playing with his life).

Anyway the point here is that contacts occur because of overtakes (can you think about any other acceptable justification for a car touching another?) and only clean passes can prove that the driver learnt from previous contacts.
Waiting the whole race before making a pass in not an excuse for making a dirty pass and proves no skill.

Also it's against the nature of real motorsport. IRL every driver tries to minimize the time he drives close to another one.
That's what strategies are for.
Longer fights occur when drivers have similar potential but that doesn't make them cleaner.

The actual rating system goes in the opposite direction which is a clear invite for more contacts especially where there are grades that lack the skill to do close racing.

Also as the last part of my post I suggested that there is no shame in running solitary races in front and that this should not be penalized. If faster drivers also join "slower" servers, some clever people over there will have the chance to observe them, interact and possibly learn something, so you'll also get more drivers in A-B only servers in the future (A-B drivers don't grow on trees but on ABCN servers ).

 

im sorry but i dont really understand most of your post but i'll reply to the bit in bold. even this one im not sure if i get what you mean, if there is a c0llision when you try to overtake someone either 1 or both of the drivers are at fault... sometimes just considered a racing incident, other times 1 driver definitely to blame. i dont see how it is much different to someone messing up their braking and hitting car infront, tagging a car that has spun in front of them, missjudging the opponent in front and being caught out by the difference in speed you carry around a corner or into a braking zone or any number of other ways 2 or more cars come together, its always all, some or 1 of the drivers at fault isnt it?

 

You may have 2 drivers very close in pace with a track that is very hard to pass on, for example our next league race is jap pack cars at Tsukuba and honestly in 17 laps it may not be easy to pass some people even if your within .5 all race and not actually being held up. I think if you can drive flat out and stay real close to another car it actually says more about how good someone is in traffic then the person that makes a few basic passes over drivers much slower then they are. I had a few 10 lap practice races with a few guys and one in the same car as me we were lapping within .1 of each other all race and gap never got above .5 yet there was no pass made. We were side by side multiple times but its just not a track your going to pass another good driver running a close pace in the same car unless they make an error.

I could jump into an ABCN server start last and make up 24 spots in 2 laps while only really needing to pass 1 or 2 people as most of them would be either off track or so slow that they arent a challenge. Now I think battling someone for 10 or 20 minutes within 1 car length with no contact say more about ability in traffic then passing 23 people that are 5 or more seconds off the pace. You could possibly even make 80 passes in 10 laps there if you count all the people you lap or pass as they escape to pits and restart. These passes are all fairly meaningless just like for me it would be racing in such a server but I wont go there again.

 

That's honest politicians' thought: hide the truth from people to make them do the right thing (then there are also cheating politicians' thoughts but those are out of the scope of this post ).

However it never works.

The best strategy is always to create systems that people can understand and relate to. The goal of a good system is not to force people to do the right thing but to have them choose to do so.

In our case, if it was based on safe passes people would understand that touching another car is always bad no matter what. Safe passing is the only thing that can make it right.

@Andy There is no difference regarding blame between my suggestion and Minolin's actual rating. In both case the blame is on both cars involved in a contact. I was just suggesting to shift the rating from close driving to overtakes because that's the whole point to all this and in my opinion it's better to directly measure this than the amount of kms a driver drives close to another.

 

You are free to make your own system then we can have more options.

 

The only pass that I would count is the one against people that drive the full race length and do not disconnect or respawn.
People that are out of track on the first lap or crashed wouldn't count as they would most likely not finish the race.

Also a wrecker with decent skills could easily join a server and drive the whole race close to a player with a slower pace.
As you see that same argument you are making against passes goes well against the actual system too.

The fact that you, clearly an A-B driver, can easily achieve A-B rank with passes based rating is hardly a bad thing (as designed !).
The point is can a wrecker do the same
and clean pass the whole field and finish the race?

The point here is that safe passes vs dirty passes for me is the most interesting statistic here to know if a driver is dirty or clean.

Anyway mine was just a suggestion, don't want to start a debate .

 

fair enough. i think i much prefer the idea of close racing not overtakes giving a positive rating for all the reasons listed above. lets leave it to Minolin (and make our suggestions to him when we think it will help) i want to stop spamming my opinion in Minolins thread :/ (for a while atleast )

 

There is already code to stop someone simply driving slowly with someone else. Do you really think a wrecker could drive closely to someone anyway. You think they will do this for 500km just to simply have one go in an AB server cause carnage then spend 500km slowly following people again to repeat once a month. The good thing about such a situation actually occuring would be that AB servers are getting proper use and even wreckers want to get in to them. Atm most AB rated people are more worried about being B grade not A then actually joining an AB server.

Your giving wreckers too much credit. The entire point I think of minorating is to identify who can drive close to others without excessive contact. Then these people can join servers where only other people that can do the same can have some mp fun without needing to deal with people that cant.

Even with your idea of a system it still would make no difference if you identified all the people that can pass clean and those that cant. And in the end they all end up in the same servers where nothing has actually changed. That is pretty much what is happening with most here. I think once a month @Minolin pulls out this.



The system just identifies good and poor drivers in traffic and then has levels of whitelist where people can choose how crappy the field they want to race can get. Its really that simple and I thought Idiot proof.

I will also stop spammin Minolins thread and go get out my stress reduction kit now.

 

Happy Birthday Minorating
and of course, Thankyou Minolin!!!

 

I am not even going to bother quoting comments here, because my response would be like a broken record. All I will say is that good drivers should be able to drive wherever they want.

 

BTW, HB MINORATING

 

They can unless someone sets servers for CDWN in most cases AB can join any MR server.

Just no point complaining if you get hit by bad drivers in servers they can also get into.

 

hmmm it would be good if MR only allows a mix of ABC. CDN & DWN. id like to go even further and seperate AB but i would be worried it would have a negative effect rather than the desired one. i have never thought about disallowing higher grades before does it work? (i know Minolin mentioned see quote below with regards to limiting grade mix but i never thought about limiting higher grades from the DWN servers.) if people want to race with everyone they can do it on open servers.

 

MR filters simply by whatever grades are in auth. To test if auth is working I simply set it to W and try to get in, I also use this test to test the MR whitelist used for our league practice servers. Test W get auth rejected add whitelist and get in so it all works.

I think I tried A only and B only but it didnt work. But I cant see any current reason seperate AB as I cant even fill an AB here unless its with tumbleweed.

I really wouldnt want to have a DWN server but could see a reason to have W or D only for a rehab server. Id love to see a full W server too but I dont think much rehab wouod be going on in there just all digging deeper graves.

 

I didn't mean this as in "implement this now!".

I'm just curious, because I really do have the suspicion that some ABC servers allow for better racing than others.
Not only based on car/track, but also because they have their regulars.

But it's not really important to do this.

I think that's the important message. At least for me, it was.
I've read a lot of posts in this thread about people dropping down to C or even D.
80 CP in 1000 km means 12.5 km/CP and I'm way above that.
So for myself, I don't need to worry and can focus on the racing.

That's also an important point. Many people only focus on their own race and sometimes you've got the feeling that they actually wish that nobody was their getting involved with them
Sometimes they might actually be better off driving alone or against the AI.

I actually also like the communicative part in MP racing. Not always, but most of the time.
Sometimes I spectate for a race or a quali session and give tips to the people I saw driving.
(Also received tips from others.)
And if a newcomer finishes the race we should be really happy for him. Even if he is a lap down.
He could be one of the great sim racers of the future.

Yes, it's still a competition, but it's not about money, it's about fun, so we should ensure that it is fun.

What would be the point of a DWN server?
There are exactly two effects:
- Nobody (or only few) is going to join, so it's a waste of money running the server
- Newbies joining a server that might hold a wrecker is driven away from online MP racing, even if he might like it

Apart from that, I think it is good that at least on some servers AB people get involved with C and possibly D grade people.
Some of the might be ignorant, but there are quite a few that are willing to learn and we should support those.

 

i mean that if Minolin is going to limit to certain tags, like this mix of grades disallowing ABCND>

he could make it so you cant set up a server with ABCD only allowing a mixture of C,D,W & N grades and disallowing AB drivers from joining servers with grades D and below (achieved by limiting the grades allowed to run together server side)

in short, you could force people to do what they should be doing anyway (whilst on MR servers) maybe N should be allowed to race with the AB guys as well i dont know but i hadnt considered the possibility of blocking higher grades before

millionth edit: i might of quoted the wrong post but iirc Minolin suggested in a previous post that tags had to be in the correct format and also that certain mix of grades would not be allowed? or atleast not be displayed in the MR lobby.

im not so sure, i quite like the idea of it being a progression. you get your next licence and get promoted to the next grade set. i think C should be on both sides, as in allowed to race with AB and allowed to race with DNW. the only grade im not sure about is N... it is only 40km, if MR was official i think N only servers would be good, not allowing N to race with any other grades. as it is i think they should atleast be allowed to race with C or N grade servers should have to have something in the title like "licence acquisition"