Mod Downloads to be Closed Indefinitely. (READ LAST REPLY)

This is what people should be doing instead of trying to convince Kunos to change their minds. I would suggest that this thread:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/skin-modding-faq.4369/

should also be cut and pasted into the general modding section.

 

Lads if you produce a scratch made mode and you make it avalaible for free it is perfectly LEGAL!

Problems are when you charge money for it, then and only then

 

Wrong.

 

Really Kunos, WTF?? Modding keeps game alive, there are so many good tracks etc. coming, this was easy and best place to found guality mods, wtf guys?? I dont understant this and i think im not alone..

 

Not if it violates some IP, trademark, copyright etc. on design, liveries, use of name..
It is pretty complex thing in digital world these days.

Just similarity of two photographs got someone in trouble in UK some time back..

The legal rules are ridiculous in many countries but they are the law and you have to follow them.

 

Yep this right here,the problem is there's even more valuable modelling/modding advice scattered throughout the wip threads too.

Such a shame to see it go,I was starting to dip my toe back into scratch made modelling.

 

A huge portion of modding is technically illegal, but it's basically been an unwritten rule that it's OK if you aren't charging money. Sure, sometimes people do get cease and desists, but the vast majority are ignored. You even have companies like Bethesda and Microsoft directly hosting stuff which could be considered illegal now that consoles have modding on Fallout 4. A quick view of the Fallout 4 mods has a Harley Quinn Batman outfit, numerous firearms which use the likeness of a real gun, various real life people such as John Cena or Randy Savage, and a Deapool outfit. There's also the same content stealing practice going on there with people stealing PC mods and converting them to Xbox versions without permission.

 

Yeah, even though that sounds good when you say it in your head, in the actual real world the law works like this:

 

At least, if we should do a personal backup, we should know if the tutorial threads in that section (i.e. Build your first TRACK - BASIC GUIDE) will be erased or moderator will move them in another section.

 

It's sad but somehow understandable. Can't blame Kunos for doing this since they can get in big trouble for even having a few links to ripped content here on the forum.
Whale, RaceDepartment it is then!

 

Yeah, you can't give other people/companies a reason to start sueing. Even if Kunos are always in the right, going to court is expensive, even winning can feel like a loss.

 

Exactly what I thought, a company that maybe not like their real name on mods on the official site....it can`t be a coincidence with the same date as some other announcement......

 

This is certainly a low-blow for the community, but I'm quite sure it is justified, Kunos have been very open-minded about mods, hell, who else includes mods as official content in their games? I agree with the other people, something important's coming down on the 17th...

 

My heart sank from reading the announcement. I completely understand Kunos's issues and reasons for taking severe action, however, I disagree with how they are implementing these actions. @kevin.maatman has repeatedly said that "these are the official AC Forums." Well, modding is an official feature of the game. Kunos provides the tools, a modding document and access to Developer Apps inside the game to test car mods. Technically, there should probably be a dedicated employee on hand to answer modding questions every day since it is an officially produced capability of the game, but the community has managed to survive helping each other with modding questions. People have been hired because of their skill and mods have become official content because of their quality. I'd say mods are a big part of Assetto Corsa.

I'm sure there are many people, like myself, who visit this forum multiple times per day. Of course we are checking the other forums, but I'm sure there are many people, like myself, who are more interested in seeing if Bilster Berg has received an update or the Veloce GTS is updated with fixes to the whatever than we are reading someone gripe about the tire model again or another post asking if rain will be added to AC for the 10,000th time. I'm certain that the removal of those three forums will translate into a very noticeable drop in user visits. Now, some might think, "The mods will probably welcome that...it means less work for them!" and that might be true, however, modding is a major reason why Assetto Corsa stays fresh for a lot of users. I know for a fact that without modded cars and tracks that I would play Assetto Corsa less than I do, perhaps a lot less...

All my bellyaching is useless, I know, because Kunos is dealing with legal issues here (I'm assuming). I don't think they would just pull the rug out from under our feet just for the fun of it. They've proven countless times that they do care about their user base - the Assetto Corsa community. So, I can understand that sometimes drastic steps must be taken. The preferred outcome, however, would be for these drastic steps to be temporary while a solution is created that appeals to both Kunos and the modding/playing community.

Would it be possible for there to be a modding section where regular users can not create new posts themselves? For example, if @LilSki wants to create Riverside International Raceway, he has to submit an "application", of sorts, to a mod with a modding proposal. A description of his mod - his goals - perhaps even .max files, sketches or whatever else would be required to establish his case for producing completely original work and/or evidence that he has been given permission to use assets or whatever that aren't "owned" by him. If Kunos has been dealing with legal issues of people's mod's naming their cars or tracks after trademarked cars or tracks that they obviously have no license for, then Lilski would name his track SoCal International Raceway. As far as I know, a simple change to the ui_track.json file can change the track's name inside Assetto Corsa. Only when his mod application has been approved will the thread be created.

Perhaps you're asking yourself "is ALB123 mentally ill? That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard..." Well, no I am not mentally ill (that I know of ), but it's time to think outside the box in order to save the things that we're going to be losing very soon. Maybe these "applications" are only reviewed and approved or denied once per week to not make an extraordinary amount of work for the person in charge of this. When you really think about it, how many ACTIVE track mods are going on at any one time? How many ACTIVE car mods? It might be a hassle at first, but once the ball is rolling it wouldn't be too much extra work at all. Probably much less than it has been up until now! Perhaps one lost day of modding for the modder as he packs all of his necessary application files into a .ZIP file. I'm sure the person in charge of reviewing these applications could burn through several each "app review day". If a modder is caught using ripped assets his modding privileges are lost forever on this forum. A system like I'm proposing would also very likely trim down the number of active mod projects - only the quality mods, created by those who go that extra mile would survive.

Again, we are going to be losing these forums no matter what. Can we do something to get them back? It might take several months to develop a viable system, but if a few smart people put their heads together anything can be accomplished. But you have to want it bad enough and be willing to make sacrifices.

Sorry for the length of this post. I am just distraught over this news. I know things can move to RD or elsewhere, but I doubt it will ever be as good as it was here.

 

On the copyright thing with mod content, two things are important.

First, the way it gets distributed. If somebody sells his mod, this represents a commercial interest, no longer a private one, and other legal standards may apply that indeed can hinder him to release his mod legally.

Second, the way he build his mod. For example, the emblem of BMW is protected. If he, as a private mod author who does not sell his content but gives it away for free, has digitally copied the emblem for his hand-crafted car from an orignal that, as a photo for example showed real BMW content, he is violating BMWs rights there even if he does not take money for distributing his mod. If, on the other hand, he has completely hand-painted the emblem he uses in his mod, maybe even add a minor variation , even just a tiny one, and still not offerering his mod for a sale, he is fine. So, handpainting the emblem, or changing "BMW" into "BWM" or "PMW, usually will keep him fine. If he copies the emblem from the copy of the real emblem showing the real emblem, scanning a photo of a BMW, for example, he might end up in trouble.

Selling a mod where he handpainted a protected emblem, can be a licensing violation, if he did not sign a license deal with that company.

One has to admit that such legal differentiations have been driven to insane extremeties in recent years. It can easily end up absurd. However, in principle the basic ideas can be understood, and are reasonable quite often.

A mod basing on an authorized mod for another sim, but that earlier other sim-mod having been illegal: that new conversion then is illegal, too.

And another misunderstanding often to be heard: Abandonware is not automatically legal to use just because it is abandoned.

P.S. On the old forums being closed: I would get some interested and known-by Kunos members and scan the threads, sorting the download stuff from general information and How To-stuff, and having the latter set up in archives that can be read, but not posted in. Other boards have done like that in past years too, for these or other reasons. Archives are the best answer, me thinks.

 

guys just a couple of clarifications and then I will let you continue with your rants.

The situation is very unfortunate and we are to blame to let this go for too long without anybody taking actions. Sadly these action are going to upset somebody and we'll all have to live with it.
There was a basic misunderstanding about the role and the meaning of the "3D Models" and "Tracks" subsection of the modding forum were. This is mainly a support forum and not a community forum. It is supposed to be a place where people interested in either fixing a problem with AC, or doing something with AC come to find information.
Sadly those forums turned into showcases of stuff instead of places to ask questions regarding mods, it was simply not the intended use of a tool tshat we wanted to offer.
In the future we'll either re open those forums or open new ones with the clear intent of offering support to those with questions regarding modding and not as a artist showcase.

I understand the decision will make some people unhappy, and I am totally fine letting you vent your disappointment in this thread (as long you are able to keep it civilized)... but I am pretty sure your lives will be fine just as they were fine before AC came out. People wanting to showcase their works will have to find another place on the internet, luckily, there are very good candidates available... I am confident the new support forum for modding will remain a great reference for those looking to create content or AC.
I apologize for the abrupt decision, but it was one of those things that it was going to hurt more the more it was going to be allowed to go on, this is a learning process for us and we're always trying to do what we think is the best for the project.
Tutorials and relevant info threads WILL NOT BE DELETED.. that is the ENTIRE point of having those forums.

If somebody thinks this decision will want to make them stop using AC then good luck to them for their future endeavors, it was a great pleasure to have you here.

 

I'll try saving at least the Car Modelling Knowledge thread, maybe put it in a PDF and upload it to RD.

I'm not one to throw a hissy fit like a kid abandoning everything at once. I'll rather cling to old times and wept myself to sleep...


Edit: And thanks to his Lordness for bringing some clarity into this discussion. And for keeping the tutorials alive.

 

what if Kunos approached a car company or a track management to inquirer about licensing.
They get told no, due to the fact that they host on the game forum an unlicensed mod of the product already.
In that scenario we all lose out.

 

Really? The cease and desist cases? That's your strong point to defend this situation.. Man I won't even bother replying to you, too much effort most likely to go wasted.
@Skybird gave a much more reasonable explanation. Thank you

 

They are, and as far as I can tell nothing's changed there. We can all still mod the game to our hearts content, we just can't discuss and deal in mods here.

I think that might make things worse. At the moment they don't want to highlight modding, but it's still there. They may be avoiding possible litigation in the future, reacting to the same, they may be doing it to allay concerns of the manufacturers and track owners. But having an application process for mods would only make the problem worse for them because they'd be in charge of vetting mods, if anything did come up they could be held responsible just by having a vetting service running. Illegal mods could be seen as a failure of their vetting even though they never saw the illegal mod.

It's a minefield. I have no idea, there are no hard rules to say what should be done. That should be enough to scare off any business.

The bottom line is modding in AC hasn't changed.

 

It seems to me to see some overreaction....

They did't close the Modding sections, but simply they closed the Mod download possibility, that I find perfectly understandable for an official Forum aimed mainly to give support, and not being a repository.
I'm usually not one guy used to see the half glass full, but this time I see the possibility that this could also led to benefit, possibly giving developers more time to give technical modding support instead of patrol the forum for links to illegal stuff.