New Tyre V7: next step to realism or just a trueman show?

Ohhhh.....The back o the bus they cannae sing ..they cannae sing...they cannae sing, The back o the bus they cannae sing...they cannea sing fur peanuts!

 

I would for sure if he was able to articulate his thoughts in a useful way.. and at the moment he isn't, that sentence you quoted makes absolutely no sense at all as far as tyre modeling goes.
Sadly words are not really a good way to express engineering concepts.. that's why we use NUMBERS! unless there is a very clear understanding of what the basic definition of what the hell "top, bottom and usable" are and saldy, there isn't.
There needs to be an attempt to elevate the discussion a bit in order to get a result from a complaint about physics.. otherwise it'll just be a useless rant that will be put into ignore list with thousands of other.. regardless of how fast the poster is supposed to be.

Real race engineers argue over (real) physics all the time.. can't please everybody, and won't be able to have everybody agreeing on something.. Niki is unhappy, but also, until now, unable to communicate anything useful.. so I don't see this situation changing anytime soon.
Driving fast doesn't require a very high IQ you know?

Disclaimer: I am not saying he shouldn't express his disappointment.. just saying nobody can expect us to jump on attention and start tearing down a sim we've been developing for years because some guy on interwebz can't find his "usable slip at the bottom".

 

I just read from a book (I think it was Milliken & Milliken race car vehicle dynamics) that it's more than often just like that. Driver will always complain about the car and it's the engineers' job to figure out what is the problem and if something can be done.

And btw. guys, I wouldn't mind Niki too much. He's a rFactor fanboy who will always dislike AC.

Edit. Didn't want to jump into conclusions, I just know the guy.

 

Shrug. I understood what he meant.

Anwyay, clearly we should wait for him to return to better articulate his point so that others can understand what he means.

I dont really mind the current tyre model. The understeer is more or less fixed, which is what i've been moaning about since AC came out.

 

The way few of the guys react is particularly stinggy and abnoxious. Especially TDS. Do you even know what slip angle is, what usable slip angle is and what then would make usable slip range or simply put slip range? And do you then know that you need sensors in your real life car to collect this highly sensitive data? No you don't know. Maybe only F1 teams can collect the sort of data that and only few other from top end in other world series. Is any of them interested in any commercial simulator, no, they're not.

Look, before you go again on crazy attack, which is more then personal on me, you need to know that I'm sim-racing for nearly 10 years now. And I'm so insane I do it daily. What I've ramped up must be a 1.000.000 racing kilometers and there is nothing out there that makes you notice details more then competition does. I have vast book knoledge in car dynamics, setup wizardry. I've gone through many many leagues, winning races, taking poles, doing incredible passes, taking titles, sprint races, endurance, including 24h race wins. Trust me, after smuthering your face in that you won't feel like you're talking over internet to anyone. Racers tend to file little profiles in their files for every other fellow competitor and if you in any way feel agitated with this then you belong on track where the battle is.

I have also helped many many friends to improve their craft. I can point out the single smallest details that will happen and my car dynamic understanding helps me forsee these things. It's much easier to build up the speed quickly if you have deeper knowledge, as compared to building your speed with doing countless laps to memorize things. Racing is so competitive, you need to get it right straight away. I'm one of the quickest to instantly compose for rain and use this as a ground to make the most difference. Also in qualifying, where often car is set different to what you're mostly training is race. Because I already know the differences, I just need to apply them without testing them too much around. I do laps daily in league and sim I choose because I like driving, very much so. I like building the setup. I like testing many many different things on setup.

It's more difficult to put all of the peaces in the puzzle for setup then it is for driving. The differences in how suspensions work are very big for almost every car, whilst driving them usually has only one or two main things to work with. Although, setup could have 1-2 main differences as well, it makes effect to almost everything else on the car too. Whilst in driving it, that's not the case. It takes a long long loong time to teach anyone anything. Racing drivers are self thought and it's the best if you can learn from the books. From champions who wrote those books. I can today teach you, what took me 30 days to go through myself, but will that make you on pair with me. Probably not. If I'm racing for over 3000 days and you're racing for less than 1000, you would need to have 3 times more talent then me to begin with. And when I started I was already down to 2seconds from WR and down to 1 after just half a year.
We all know the nismo stories of sim-racer turned pro and we know what most successful among us are capable of.

So, now that I've made my point suger, I'll explain this tire slip angle. All you need to do is read Secret #10 You will never win without understanding how tires work in Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley Click here page 35. Make sure, you take 3 days to go through that chapter at least the first time!

 

After reading hundreds of words about how good you are, I want to thank you that you share a part of your knowledge in the last two sentences...

 

So, ten years of sim racing.. How much actual track time?
Being you fast in a sim is not really where you learn how tires work, son.

 

I sent some data to Aris for analysis but I know you are very busy at the moment.

 

Mmmm, logically speaking aren't you complaining about the "slip range" in AC?

And in this post you now say only, "F1 teams collect this sort of data even stating that only a few other top end (teams) in other world series".....

Yet you expect Kunos to get it right? I'm not saying they haven't gotten it correct but how can you say what you said about F1 only having this data and then assuming Kunos can do it or any other simulator title?

The book you linked only has 25 pages, did you mean page 25?

 

All i see there is

 

https://books.google.ba/books?id=qUUSdi976hgC&pg=PA35&lpg=PP1&focus=viewport&hl=hr

 

Sorry, maybe it's my browser but that link only has 25 pages as well. Are you able to see more?

 

You know, sometimes you need to BUY the books?!

 

Looks like I can access all pages here....let me do a pdf

 

It only seems to be showing a selection of pages, but the entire book seems to have at least 83 pages. Maybe you need to be a world class racing driver to see them all?

 

Thanks

 

Please keep it classy, Admin. English is not most users' mother tongue; and language processing is not even linked to IQ.

Best Regards,
Brett

 

Sorry, I get an error everytime I try to upload the file.
See if that works....

 

Well, what we have so far is a hothead simracer complaining about the slip graph of V7 tires (if I understood correctly from the unclear text) because he does not like it, citing a "for beginners" -book and not bringing any data, study, numbers or even an engineering book to the table. But he is fast, so something should surely be done to AC.. Errm no.

What are you after @Niki Đaković ?