Overtaking

We all know that iracers can be of two kinds: normal iracers and wreckers. But what all of we don't know is that normal iracers can be also wreckers, in fact almost of them are. (Excuse me for the use and abuse of the overtaking word).

It's the case in an overtaking action. In real life in any overtaking the overtaken car can't close the way by suddenly blocking the overtaking car, the reason is evident: an accident is the most likely result for such an action. But in sims, and I mean, all sims, it's something we can see almost in any overtaking. Yesterday I was in three or four races, and in any overtaking I was wrecked by people that probably don't consider themselves wreckers, but they are.

In iracing, even I protested such thing and unbelievably, totaly odd, the iracing answer was that it was a normal movement. Excuse me sirs, is a normal movement in simracing, but in real racing that can be even motive of prison, no joking.

And the ultimate reason for such behaviour is that all source code sims is programmed the way in such action, always the overtaking car is the looser, and the overtaken car can continue his sinful way without problems.

So I would dare to ask you racing software programmers, to take a look to this, and try to imagine how the result could be the inverse: the overtaken car out of the race and the overtaking one alive and well (not kicking). I don't think it's so hard task, not in vain the overtaking car is following a straight course, and it's the overtaken car who does a sudden and abrupt movement.

Thank you for your time.

 

Defending is allowed in racing but subjected to the following restrictions:
- One move and only one move (change of racing line) is allowed per strait to defend your position.
- The change of racing line to defend is not allowed inside the breaking zone.

 

Hey buddy,


I hear you, it's always pain to be driven off track if you're sure you did everything by the book.
There's been many threads about driving etiquette in online racing, and even if you're seasoned racer/simmer, it seems to me you could have a tiny part fault of those incidents you're involved with.
I suggest you take a look at www.minorating.com, which has a great summed up guide to clean racing, while MR servers are something you may want to look for online.
Lastly, if you want any fair comments on your incidents, upload replays and specify time where they occur.


Happy New Year

 

Whilst I am aware that one blocking action is permitted in real world racing, I generally frown upon any blocking manouevres in sim racing. I work on the assumption that if the guy behind me has superior exit speed from a corner, then he has earned the right to overtake me. That doesn't mean that I expect everyone to follow my own rules, although I do think that this is sporting behaviour, and also reduces the chance of a collision.

 

Ai's behave like that, that's why there are no challenge to fight with them, you draft them get the inside line, they give up, job done.

 

Sometimes my patience is running very low. I had a guy yesterday who called me a wrecker. Quali time, Zondas on Silverstone. Going round like a boss on my glowing-hot-lap, I see a guy just at the end of beckets and maggots, he's already halfway down the main straight when I exit the corners so I say to my self that I'll be able to finish my lap without catching him. By the last chicane I'm already on top of him.
Now I have 3 thoughts in my little brain at this point while trying to set a time.

1) He's on an out lap and he will (should) let me by no problem.
2) He's ultra hyper slow Joe and he will block me because 'Hey, I'm on a fast lap, the road is mine'
3) He's had an off moment, which invalidates his lap anyway so there's no reason to think he won't let me by.

Ok, as I approach him I can hear little noises coming out of my teeth as my jaw muscles got tenser and tenser as we came closer. Last chicane, I have a minimum of 10 kph advantage, he stays outside, I stay in. As we turn in, I can see him coming closer although I have a sausage kerb on my left and have no where to move. I'm still faster than him through the corner but he's coming closer. I can see his front on my right monitor, Helicorsa flashes yellow, then red, I'm giving a last push of the throttle to try to get clear before he slams into me but no... We collide, despite my best efforts, none of us span out, just a collision. I was able to finish my lap as was he.

He goes in the pits and calls me a rammer.
And they get offended when I tell them to go offline and practice..

 

Sounds like the typical rookie wearing blinkers.

 

Nah; just don't do it if it's likely you & they are going to go underneath the netcode safety margin - as Kristaps said defending is part of what makes racing other people interesting. Not sure the one-move-per-straight is universal, is it? If it wasn't likely to result in spontaneous ejection I'd be ok with people leaning on my car ( note leaning is not the same as ramming! ) if it was a saloon racing type of field.

Where I differ from real racing is that I'll give ground if someone's got any part of their car alongside, rather than the usual more than half. If I leave room & they still hit me at that point there'll be words, but that's racing.

 

Thats one general rule I go by to leave racing room to anyone that has overlap at any part of the track, if someone defends and moves to the inside then they need to leave you the room on the outside if you have any overlap and cant swing back out wide. Thats a very common rookie or poor driver error, the other one is when you go inside someone into a turn and if they stay there with overlap into the apex and exit you need to leave 1 car space of valid track to the outside as they need to on the inside.

General fault in a corner on entry I see if there is overlap and the inside car runs wide of the apex then hits then outside car. Same if the outside car then dives into the apex and not leaving 1 car width of racing room for the car on its inside. My basic definition of a dive bomb is anyone that dives into the inside but then cant slow enough to hit the apex and so runs wide into the outside car, most big dive bombers come in so fast you can see it coming. They will never make the apex and quite often wont even stay on track at the apex almost relying on you to turn in and help them slow down.

This isnt always a blatant dive bomb as its an easy enough mistake to make for any person at time to misjudge the braking on the inside as you need to slow more then on the regular line. A slight lockup and you will hit the other car even if they are leaving you racing room to the inside, in most cases when I see someone is never going to stop I just slow more in a straight line let them go wide and retake the place. If someone is repeatedly doing this on purpose then there will be words as they need to try their best to leave racing room at all times.

In terms of defence the easiest way to make sure you get past is hug the inside and be a sitting duck out of the corner as you have less track to use and will exit slower. The hardest guys to pass are those that can hit the line consistently and make you go around them or get your car into a position where they need to leave racing room. Even if your ahead and someone has got alongside on the inside there is no reason for you to have to give up the position. If you can turn in leaving them racing room then you both have a little less track to play with and it can be a real battle on who can get the best exit and position to the next corner.

 

Not quite, the easiest way to interpret iRacing blocking rules are like this:
You are allowed to move to defend in anticipation of the other drivers move.
You are NOT allowed to move in reaction to the other drivers move, that is considered blocking.

So you are not automatically allowed to do one move, only in anticipation!

 

Yes, this is what I consider blocking, and what I would never do myself. Taking the inside line well in advance of a corner is defending, which is entirely different.

 

Not necessarily. If someone is on a hotlap they should expect not to be impeded. If you come up behind someone then that is your misjudgment of timing when starting your hotlap - of course sometimes it can't be helped, but still, qualifying etiquette is a lot different to racing etiquette. You shouldn't expect someone else on a hotlap to receive blue flags and pull over - they are trying to get further up the grid as well. This is standard in most real life racing formats.

Just because you might be quicker, doesn't give you any additional privileges.

 

Taking me to school, eh?
Did you read iVG's post? Rookie wearing blinkers in my book

 

I've read this thread, top to bottom and some parts I agree, others I don't. Is it wrecking / etiquette we're talking about or just a lack of race-craft?

If a car gets partly alongside you it doesn't give them the right to the overtake. It is always on the overtaking car to do so cleanly, and sometimes overtakers get partially alongside (not even halfway) and get surprised when a door that was always going to close on them gets shut - especially on a corner that is not considered an overtaking point.

I'm often told that I'm blocking because when I'm defending I position my car in places which makes it difficult / impossible for someone to overtake cleanly ("making my backside bigger") - I don't weave, I don't change line in the braking zone and, as the car in front, I make my defending move first and stay with it. If they make it cleanly - great, good driving. If they don't make it don't complain (and don't hit me). I'm certainly not going to yield the position because the car behind has a better exit speed or because they're generally quicker, as that means I'm no longer racing.

 

Tell me more about qualifying rules and etiquette pls

Timing my hot lap - with another 15 cars on the track, it's kinda hard to leave more than 10 seconds gap. As I said, I couldn't even see him, 5 corners prior.

Blue flags in qualy - I never expect anyone to yield in qualy if they are on a hot lap. However, if my hot lap is 10 seconds faster than yours, you're doing something wrong. Just not knowing the correct racing line gives me the impression of someone trying to leave room for me to pareason. If you really are 10 seconds off the pace on a 1:50 track you shouldn't be fighting for positions really unless you're in a slower car.
If I, for whatever reason, am +10s, I will yield you my place because I know I'm leaving time behind on every single corner and my hot lap is probably not worth recording.

Now, that said and out the way, he stayed out, giving me the impression that he's was going to let me by, only to come back at me. Now, before anyone calls another a rammer , don't give them false signs with your driving, that's all I wanted to say.

 

In many series, you get 'one move' to defend, but it's also ok to move back over towards the racing line as you approach the braking zone.

So basically, you can swerve over to defend the inside, but if you feel you've got them covered, it's ok to move back towards the racing line so you aren't so compromised for the upcoming corner. Obviously if somebody is now to your outside, you cant just force them over, they can hold you inside if they want. Or if they're still behind you and you move back towards the racing line, you might be leaving the door open again if you haven't truly warded their attempt off, so you dont always want to do this.

But it's important people realize this is not usually considered an illegal 2nd move.

 

I'm sure there are mitigating circumstances, but thought it pertinent to clarify the expectations during qualifying.

There are plenty of series where some cars are dramatically slower than others, however they are still not allowed to impede a slower car's qualifying lap.

 

And yet they find a way to go around each other due to their sheer difference in speed. Our guy didn't want to give up the place nor he wanted to let me by. He gave me the wrong signals by driving badly. I completely understand how he doesn't have to do it. But if you stay out, just stay out, don't come back at me middle of the corner then cry out loud in the pits....

Just if you're 10 seconds off the pace give the place up OK? No arguments how it in real life. IRL they don't take the average Joe to drive at speed.

 

That is not considered a move to defend but just taking the racing line for the next corner. The car in front is entitled to take the racing line for the corner as long he is in front.

 

i completely agree but you must admit it is infuriating when you catch a guy on your outlap, back off for 5 or 10 seconds till they are out of sight, then meet them again at turn 2 lol. i had it yesterday 2 Q's in a row with the same player. i didnt say anything as he hadnt really done anything wrong... dont get me wrong though, im always looking to find my own space on an out lap, if someone exits the pit behind me and stays close as we approach the flying lap i will quite often back off as id rather not have the distraction of them in my mirrors (i like to be very blaitant about it as a little suggestion they should have found their own space as well lol)