Overtaking

On the bright side I'm back to A+B @andy-riches

 

you found a suitable ABC server then

 

Yeh the Brands GT3 ALOOG. Sorry for derail.

 

Interesting conversation...

One thing we all have to remember is that, unless you are league racing and "know" what opponents are likely to do in any given situation as they are people who you race with regularly, there is a large difference in skill/experience levels and even equipment when racing on pub servers. Irrespective of skill/experience nobody out there is psychic so expecting anyone to know that racer A is 10s a lap faster than racer B is a bit of a moot point. When I used to teach people to drive a little thought process that I used to try and get them to use would be to say... never ASSUME anything because if you do you'll make an *** out of U and ME.

Personally, I follow a couple of simple rules. In quali I stay out of the way if I'm not on a fast lap, If I am on a fast lap and you catch me up then tough, I'll be concentrating on finishing that lap and if you try to intimidate me into letting you past I'll be letting you know my opinions in the chat. In the race I keep my line in corners, I don't change line in the braking area and I choose my line relatively early. If I know I'm beaten in an overtaking situation then I'll let them have it and try to stay in touch to learn where an opportunity might come to get the place back. At the end of the day (get ready to cringe ) AC is a "game", it's not like life depends on it...... does it ?

Have fun out there....

 

I think that one or two people have misunderstood my comment. I do not "yield" position.....ever. In other words, I do not move out of the way if someone has a greater exit speed from a corner. If they want to overtake me, then they will have to go around me. However, I will not move across the track to block them if they are about to pull alongside me.

 

I didn't assume he was 10s off the pace. I caught him for less than half a lap and he was 5+ seconds ahead by the time I was half way through. No assumptions .

 

I guess pub servers are quite different to leagues. In a pub server it happens very often mostly due to careless people and really qualy is rarely that inportant in these.

Assuming they arent on a hotlap or have already ruined theirs, a fair driver will generally respect all others on track and so if they arent on a hotlap will simply avoid slowing quicker guys catching them.

In league racing pretty much all respect proper etiquette but trying to find space for a lap is one of the big challenges in qualy. If everyone is very similar pace its easy but if there is 5 seconds or so between the fastest and slowest guys the faster ones just need to do their best to get in a clean run while at the same time not getting in the way of others trying to find the space. If you get stuck behind someone on a hotlap its just tough luck, theres also no point ruining their lap by making some silly pass on them which is pretty poor form too if your lap has already been compromised.

I dont think you ever need to concede the position to cars alongside either in defending or when attacking. The key is to leave racing room to anyone who has overlap to not run them off the road. There really is no corner you cant pass on and the key is that you can make the other guy work for it by hanging in there but neither should squeeze the other off the track when there is overlap.

Sure its up to everyone to pass cleanly but its also up to others to defend in the same way.

There are some people who drive as if they are on the track on their own. Completly unaware of others on track who you can never pass into a corner as they will either turn in to you at the apex or run you wide on the exit. The worst ones defend the inside then drive straight back across and run the outside guy off the road.

Also the only ones that block extensovely from lap 1 are the real slow guys that think that in some way it is fair or good racing.

Blockers I still pass as clean as possible and normally they are already slow then even slower by going defensive. These are quite easy to pass because of this, but sometimes they get so pissed when you out smart them they drive you off the road or into a wall down the straight.

 

yeah, i wouldnt try and pass at that point... its a case of back off and try again. i have to say it is the most frustrating thing i tend to experience reasonably often in MP. again, it isnt anyones fault. i've not been able to get a lap in for whole Q sessions before just from catching the same guy, aborting the lap. stopping the car completely for 5-6 seconds at a time as long as know one is approaching behind, till there is nothing in front of you and then you meet the guy on the next lap, abort, wait longer... there he is again its that small % of people that are a good 10seconds off the pace, or inconsistent enough that they want to persue laps where they have spun off or made big mistakes.

 

Yet I've heard many people complain(often with lots of insults and swearing lol) online that this is a '2nd move' and is illegal after I've successfully fended them off doing this. So not everybody realizes this.

Also, it's not really about 'being in front'. Being in front doesn't give you some god given right to take whatever line you want. If somebody is right up on you in the braking zone, but you're still technically in front and move back to the racing line, they can easily jump right underneath you and be alongside going into the corner. You do not then have the 'right' to take the corner as you please and expect the other driver to back off. This is another thing that many people throw fits about, as they have some weird idea that being the lead driver, that nobody should be allowed to challenge them going into a corner. Obviously once you're already mid turn-in and you're ahead, then yea, any attempt to then get alongside you is likely *way* too late and the overtaking driver would be at fault for any collision, but still, there's no 'right to the racing line'. If you're defending, you can move back over towards the racing line(completely or often just partially since there's often not much time get all the way over again before braking or turn-in) because it's an allowed move, not because you have some right to the racing line.

 

That's the only real problem I currently have with AI, I can have my rear wheel parallel to an AI's front wheel, and if I come across to take the racing line, and around I go.
And no, I'm not talking about an abrupt move, but a gradual bending into a corner.

LATE4APEX

 

That's your fault. It is not their responsibility to move over for you or back out in that situation. You dont have some inherent right to come back to the racing line no matter what. If a car is there, you are pinned. It is one of the risks/compromises you make by defending inside.

 

Nobody said you did.

You and @kikie must be one and the same. Just because somebody replies directly after you in a forum thread doesn't automatically mean that they are talking about you. I generally tend to quote people when I have a different opinion. My post is just trying to pass on the benefits of some real world experience and how you can help yourself make a good decision when you are trying to overtake somebody or deal with slower traffic during quali using some of the examples given in the thread.

/me shakes head and walks away...

 

AH,...but I'm NOT "defending the inside",...I'm taking the racing line, and I'm NOT expecting them to "move over", just don't hit me when I take the "racing line", if they are only beside me only by a wheel.

If the "other" car was farther up beside me than a couple of feet, I would agree.

How would you determine what constitutes,..."a car is there",...3 feet, 1 foot, 6", 1", 1/2", just curious.

LAT34APEX

 

and 1 more
-if Attacker car is overlapping with your car already (meaning side by side, even tho a little bit)

 

@iVG, would you have done the same manoeuver if it had been a real car, where if what has happened happens, you could get hurt, hurt someone else, ruin your race because you had damaged you car during qualification, have to spend a lot of money, that you might not have, to fix any issue you had just created?
Reading your post and your justification for taking a chance with an other driver, whom you did not know, therefore had no idea how he would react, is what make MP so unreal.
Every one is always arguing about how realistic a SIM is ( or not), most of the time from avid MP driver, when the way MP SIM racer drive is totally unrealistic, starting with setup that do not duplicate in real racing to continue on driving like an incident is of no consequences.
So to reply to the OP, MP would be much more interesting if the overtaking was done as if an accident is a thing to avoid.

 

You said you are 'coming across' to take the racing line. Coming across from where? It sounded to me like you were on the inside before, then were moving back outside(where the racing line almost always is).

I dont really understand what you're saying otherwise.

 

Yes I agree absolutely it's frustrating, and we've all probably taken a racing pass on someone during qual I'm sure.

Personally, I don't often find it to be too great of a problem though on pub servers. Maybe it's because most of the time I'd prefer a random grid or to qual at the back and see how far up I can get.

But yeah, totally understand the frustration, however it's probably also a good thing to remember that some of these other guys haven't put the hours we have into AC and some of them are new, so it's good to be nice to them

 

There should be no overlap.

This is one of the best little guides out there atm imo:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

 

"Coming across" from the "outside" towards the "inside/apex", that"s how you drive a corner, outside to inside.

Maybe I should have said,..."coming across to continue on the racing line",...but I thought that was obvious.

LATE4APEX

 

Keeping in mind,... that I am the "defender".

From your link,..."the attacker must be at least halfway alongside the defender when they reach the apex to have a reasonable claim to this piece of track".

And,..."In this case, the attacker has only their front wing alongside the defender’s rear wheel. The defender has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the attacker".


In this case, I am the "attacker".
And,..."If the driver going around the outside is already more than half a car length ahead by the apex, they are entitled to cut in to the inside along the racing line, ..."

That's a lot more than a wheel.

LATE4APEX