Speed penalty for not using h-shifter?

I use both feet braking but mostly right foot. Some cars with shifter there is the odd corner you need some lfb but mostly just right foot with heal and toe.

Having not driven manual cars without a shifter much I dont know if it auto blips for you when using paddles. Regular cars with semi auto paddle transmissions are much easier to brake not needing to manually rec match. Still I dont find it hard its just more work thats not needed with a paddle shift car.

The people that struggle under braking in any type of car mostly brake too late and too hard. Causing big weight shifts and not being in proper control of the car under braking. The quicker guys are normally quicker because they are better under braking then anywhere else.

Corner entry is the most critical part of driving fast. Its also where you may back of a fraction for more consistency or push a little harder for ultimate pace. Corner exit there isnt much you can do if you stuff the entry so the only way to gain time on exits is to have a better entry.

For the better drivers they can handle a shifter and the extra things needed just as well as someone using paddles, I prefer a shifter as I am more in control of what the car does and simply prefer that way even if it was slower. Ultimate pace isn't the main thing for me sure I want to be as quick as I can be but there are plenty quicker then me and its always fun trying to beat some proper aliens. I dont do it very often as they just can drive closer to the limit without errors, the main reason this thread got started is because Guybrush who regularly out paces me by .5 or so couldnt keep up when we were both in the elise. At that point he didnt use his shifter but since then has been using it as he doesn't like being beaten so much. He really didn't need much time to get to grips with the shifter and so he again started outpacing me by the same margin, on the rare occasion I can beat him but he has me covered probably 9 times out of every 10 races. There are still some guys a little quikcer then him so no matter how fast you are there is generally always someone faster unless your name is Huttu and you actually are a proper alien or just about any guy in team redline.

 

I'm not talking about my inputs, I'm talking about the actual behaviour of the car as Kunos have designed it. To me it seems like the car is more unbalanced when down-shifting with paddles in a manual car as opposed to the H shifter.

 

Recently my H Shifter broke so I was on paddles. I was a bit annoyed to discover that un ticking the "Use seperate H shifter" setting also forced an automatic clutch you cant switch off. However, I did discover that your manual clutch pedal does actually still work. So while the Auto clutch is forced, you can "override" it with the manual clutch.

I agree with what you say; that if you use paddles and drive, say the RUF, the auto clutch is not very smooth and it is delayed. But I felt that I could pretty much over ride these negatives by just using my own clutch. I think doing this may even negate the "penalty" for using paddles in a H-Shifter car. I never tested fully, but you guys might want to try that. It definitely felt more stable and quicker for me to use my own clutch, overriding the auto clutch, when using paddles in a H-Shifter car.

Of course this isn't much use if you dont have a clutch pedal, but I thought you guys might find it useful to know/test.

 

But braking in a street car in traffic is exactly the opposite to the right technique. Nobody brake as hard as possible on a daily commute.

I´m not talking about "being fast" or braking technique. I´m talking about getting used to right foot braking. When you know how to brake properly, but know too that one foot is better than the other, (better modulation, better blips/rev match, better release), for most simracers its the left i suppose. Up until the g25 some years ago there was no cheap wheel with a clutch, no sim required right foot braking and some like GPL almost mandate left foot braking because to go fast you had to brake and acelerate at the same time to balance the car.

I took a long time to gain enough confidence in my right foot to make a whole race with it without second guessing myself that my left foot was better. I could be fast with my right but in the back of my mind i always thought about the left foot. It wasnt until jan/13 (and i bought my first g27 in 09 or 10) that when practicing for a race i was faster with my right foot because i was struggling to setup the brakes of the car (the race of this screenshot ). For me at least it took a while, not just to learn h&t and stuff but more importantly to be able to be proficient/confident with both.

 

I guess that the difference between guys that purely sim and those that also did real world racing, I have driven some cars that need LFB but have always been more comfortable with RFB. So I RFB unless there is a corner where LFB is of a benefit. The main reason I like AC so much is the things I did in real cars work well here and so the same techniques can be used, in many sims in the past you needed to drive very different to any real world cars to be quick and so I had little interest in them. Im sure even in AC its possible to drive in ways you never would a real car but its good to know its not slow to drive in a realistic way.

 

The only left foot braking I have ever done was in a go kart. I would never contemplate doing it in a normal car, either real or virtual.

 

Tried a 5 lap back to back:
alfa qv @ Silverstone, the difference between Stability On/Off was 0.161 slower.
Merc SLS AMG @ silverstone was 0.256 faster.
Stability control should have no precalculated penalty built in, as anyone with semi decent car control would never trigger the electronics to begin with.

I think the reason the paddle shifted car has less stability, is down to the rear axle being left to rotate freely, because the clutch is held in the disengaged state for about 0.5secs on some cars (which would also mean no engine braking,). So I'm surprised that the braking distance doesn't change, as all the braking would be via the braking system only.

Without the aid of the engine to the back wheels, the only thing to help with rear stability would be the differential setup. Raise the coast diff setting or the preload, for better straight line stability, but as the diff is more locked the car will be harder to turn in. So you can mitigate for it, but it will hamper your lap.

Matt.

 

Code:

0.22
- all cars with H pattern manual gearbox, when used with paddles, can now enable autocut-off autoblip assist properly. The timings are slower than what you can achieve with an H shifter hardware.

Just providing some info from the update log.
~Bailey

 

I take it that this refers only to the old classic H pattern cars, and does not refer to modern cars with paddles? Or does driving a modern car with H pattern gear make it faster too?

 

After 330 posts, I think its fair to say that this discussion isnt going anywhere. I think we should agree on disagree and move on. In the end its kunos who has to decide on the compromise. But there will always be someone in a disadvantage.

 

Appearently I was still reading 6 pages back :l

 

It refers to "all cars with H pattern manual gearbox".
Driving a modern car with H pattern gear is not possible in AC.
~Bailey

 

I think we've come to the conclusion that there is a speed penalty.

 

Err.. never opened this thread for some reason.. so you're telling me that I could be faster by just buying the shifter??

I have a T500RS and I use the paddles, of course I use the clutch, heel-toe etc but I thought there wouldn't be much difference apart from the fun of using a lever and of course the "danger" of taking one hand off the wheel to change gear. I actually suspected that using the paddles made me faster, because I don't have to take my hand off the wheel. Oh well, I'm off to purchase a dozen

 

Remember, this is only for H-pattern cars; your shifter won't work on paddle shift cars. But yes, you could potentially be a little faster, at least until you miss a shift and then you will be much slower, especially once you damage the transmission, which is something that paddle and sequential users never have to worry about.

That being said, I can't wait until I am able to get a proper H-pattern myself.

 

I actually made the transmission section of the "car damage drawing" flash red for a second in the Evora GTC because I changed down through the gears slightly too fast. I guess I should be put in the stocks, and laughed at by the general public

 

@Christopher Low Stoned to death... maybe?