Off-track 5 Second Penalty

True, and your suggested system looks simpler to implement. But I'm not convinced yet. What if one spins at T1 at the nurburgring gp, and loses 10 seconds on his delta. With your rule he could cut the chicane at the end of the lap, gaining a few seconds without getting a penalty as he will get a slower laptime anyway because of the spin. How does iRacing work this out?

 

Yes very true - i didn't say it was perfect lol.
Maybe a sector delta might get around this but again it will never be infallible.
I have only ever raced AC so i cannot help regards iracing.

 

how about not going off track, I find that works.

 

If only it were always that simple.

 

Sorry but slowdowns (50% throttle) belongs in arcade games NOT in Sim Racing !

 

It's the other racers that's the problem and must be controlled

 

Late to this thread, but just thought I'd say that I've grown used to the 5 second penalty and I think it makes me a better driver as a result. Still sucks when I get more than two wheels on the grass during a kick *** lap

 

The problems with no penalty at all at the first or second warning is that you can use that to your advantage on the last lap where you then have the possibility to cut twice and gain a lot of time.

That's why I prefer if there is time added to your final result for doing stuff like that.
It may look like your winning but when you see the end result you might loose several places.

This still sound like a good idea to me:

1st Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
2nd Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
3rd Final Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
4th Disqualified and removed from race

 

The 5 second penalty has absolutely no place in a fine Race Sim like AC !
It's just soo arcade !

 

So by your logic F1 is 'sim' racing? I heard the theory that the whole universe is a hologram, but an arcade race game, are you sure?

In F1 if a driver cuts and gains a place or time the team orders their driver to slow down and be seen to have a slower sector time. Obviously in sim racing we don't have a team telling us what to do so the it's up to the driver exactly when they back off full throttle as they then can check behind themselves and get off the racing line to give back their advantage gianed from cutting. The problem with the current system is the automatic nature of it and that complete throttle cut can cause a spin, then you are slowing down suddenly on the racing line, which can cause a crash. The fact that 1-2 seconds is added to the sector time not many people have an issue with that.

Also extreme high speed cutting like at Monza should just inavlidate the lap. Cut every lap then the game just judges it as an incomplete lap, do 10 laps and it still says 'lap1'.

Sorry but adding 5 seconds to the race time will punish those who are getting out of the way of idiots, especially the 1st infringement and make the racing boring, killing exciting finishes and handing out hollow victories. Plus as its nerver actually used in real racing that's about as unrealistic as it gets, so it has much less place in sim racing than my own idea!

 

Well my logic is that F1 is one of the most boring if not the most boring racing event today.
It's like, start, wait for the first corner then wait for the pit stop and then the race is pretty much done.

Sometimes the race is even over after the first corner

Relying on drivers to slow down on their own is a complete waste of time when it comes to Sim racing because there are so many idiots who in the heat of the moment seems to have a brain of an ant and the idea of having that system was probably one of the first any Sim racing developer rejected.

The problem is to have a system that punish those drivers who cut tracks or rear-end others on purpose or just accidentally, and make it feel naturally.

One thing is certain and that is that the 5 sec auto slowdown has got to go because it simply doesn't belong in anything remotely like any Sim Racing. It's simply pure arcade !

 

Using my suggestion though they will have to self regulate otherwise they will get a 5 second stop/go. If they fail to take that then DQ them?

 

Then I'm afraid that most players will most likely get a DNF because a 5 second stop and go isn't going to take just 5 seconds but more likely 30 seconds due to the in and outs of the pit as well and a lot of players probably just going to leave the session !

The main problem is that there are a huge difference between a real race driver and the typical gamers mental capacities and goals

It's going to be interesting to see what Kunos will actually come up with to solve this problem, -that is if they are looking into this to start with

 

Yes it will be interesting. For the casual gamer then then the current penalty is not too bad (not infallible but not bad) the only thing is that its implementation can cause problems for other players on track.
a 5 second stop go could be replaced by just a drive thru maybe but to be honest if people are going to ignore just a 1 second penalty knowing that they will get a much bigger penalty then they probably are not the most serious player and leaving the session is no bad thing?

 

The 5 second penalty is a poor design choice all round. You personally get hit with it because you have to avoid accidents, or get pushed off the track, then get a 5 second throttle cut as a final insult. Then other players get hit with the 5 second throttle cut, are then are travelling a fraction of the speed that other drivers are (in MP) so then that causes more pile ups as drivers struggle to evade a car crawling along.

The 5 second throttle cut breeds more accidents, if you can't see how that can be an issue, then jump onto a few large servers and do a few MP races.

 

The problem is that most online people aren't very serious at all and that is why real racing rules wont work in sim racing !

 

I have been on many MP servers and i agree that it is not great and does cause the incidents that you mention.
I was mainly replying to 4yrton's post stating that the general casual MP player will not be interested in taking a stop go or drive thru penalty etc. In that situation then the 5 second penalty works in so much as it is an instant and unavoidable penalty that they have no option but to take.
If it is accepted that casual players will not accept a 'proper' penalty as 4yrton states then i don't see an easily implementable solution without a complex procedure in which the game itself looks for who was at the cause of the issue and what the potential gain might be and when best (safest) to apply that penalty.

That is why i believe that a semi self regulating (until it is ignored) penalty system may work better, cause less issues for other players, reduce the 'unfair' penalty for players who have just had to take avoiding action but still stop players unfairly cutting or abusing track limits.

Thanks

Nath

 

I remember Simbin's Race 07 had pretty decent AI and rules/warnings.
I am going to try a couple of races with it even though it feel like a boat sim compared to AC just to see the difference

 

I've made a small app based on an earlier app I made. It compares the deltas when leaving and re-entering the track, and then gives a message to reduce the advantage. It's not perfect but maybe you want to try or edit it.

Note that it's just a quickly made concept app. It doesn't work in MP, and you need to drive 1 clean lap first to record data. Then start cutting

 

It need not be all this complicated. Other sims set out "cutting zones", ie sections of the track where if you go through, you get a penalty. So turn 1 at Monza, all that area to the left of the actual chicane would be a cut zone. Going through that at speed would result in a penalty of some sorts. Usually a drive through. Then after more transgressions, a black flag.

I honestly can't believe people here didn't play GTR2 or GTL, because this is exactly how they policed cutting and it worked perfectly.