Off-track 5 Second Penalty

Think outside the gaming software box. Most games never receive updates (except MMoRPG) other than bug fixes after release. The wider software world, this is not so much the case. For example, the Safari browser I am using right now is at version 7.1.

 

Kunos, please never remove the penalties in multiplayer. Or the races would become a complete joke.
Races were you would have to cheat to keep up with others.
It is perfect as it is ->
1) If you go out of the track as a result of a collision, you don't get a penalty
2) If you get out of the track as a result of a mistake* you get a penalty.

* The frontier between voluntary or involuntary mistake can be difficult to define.

 

Problem is there are still some corners where the penalty is not enough.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. If you get knocked off out of the track, you get a 5 second throttle cut like any other time, if it's your fault or not. I had to avoid a collision the other day by going on the grass, so not only did I lose time by being on the grass, I got dirty tyres and was slapped with the 5 second throttle cut, none of which was my fault. The 5 second throttle cut has no place in a serious sim.

 

This penalty system couldn't be any worse as it is. A guy in front of you, who you drive close to, cuts the track and gets 5s penalty. Then because the system takes his throttle away, you in many times rear end that person. It just doesn't make for a safe and enjoyable racing.

They should completely ditch this type of penalty and make it so you control the slowdown yourself as you do in iRacing. If the slowdown is not sufficient enough, you get a drive through penalty.

Or maybe 3 warnings and if you do it 4th time, you get drive through.

 

1st Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
2nd Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
3rd Final Warning, 5 Seconds added to final result ( No slowdown )
4th Disqualified and removed from race

 

What about when you break your wing int the first chicane madness and then have to do all the track with hell understeering before getting in the pit? half racers would be disquailified...

 

No, no. It should be like in reality. 2 warnings with no consequences. 3rd warning is a penalty - I`m for driving through pits.
I know there are different types of warnings and penalties, but the one described above seems the most fair to me.

 

It's complicated and probably every penalty system has its drawbacks. I think gtr2 did it quite well, altough it had too harsh stop/go penalties instead of drive through. I don't know how the detection system of gtr2 worked, maybe with predetermined 'cut zones'.

I've been thinking about the pros and cons of the current AC penalty system, which uses only 'tyres out' to detect cutting:
+ penalty reduces the time advantage of cutting
+ penalty is instant; no change of positions after the race.
- penalty is sometimes not sufficient (monza 1st chicane)
- penalty is sometimes given when it is not needed (when avoiding a collision. or already lost time after a mistake)
- slowdown causes danger to drivers behind

Here's another idea; a bit more complicated though so i've been painting.

Say we cut the first chicane in monza, and we have the current delta time to our best lap available.
We leave the track at position 1 and re-enter at position 2. If we are running at high speed, then the delta time at pos 2 is smaller than at pos 1: a cut is detected; laptime can be invalidated.
But, in a race, what is the advantage that we've gained? Just taking the difference between Δ1 and Δ2 isn't sufficient: our speed on the next straight is much higher than when we would have taken the chicane. The delta will still be decreasing until the next corner. It's better to wait until the delta doesn't drop (significantly) anymore and only then calculate the time advantage since position 1.

I think it's best to add up the advantages of all cuts, and only get a drive-through when the sum exceeds a certain amount (say 10 seconds), rather than slowing down yourself after a cut. Otherwise, when your tyre are worn, you could cut a chicane and then 'give up' this advantage only because of poor grip.

There are probably drawbacks and lots of if-statements needed to refine, but this post is long enough

 

Worst thing in current system is the power cut off. It can cause you a spin or someone might crash your back.

IMO iRacings slow down where you have to "slow down by yourself or get black flag" is better.

 

It causes more trouble. Someone cuts Eau Rouge slightly in a tight group and guess what, a massive pile up. This is a Sim (hopefully) not some console game. IMO does not belong here.

 

I think it is a stopgap thing to get by until real racing rules(flag system) are implemented.

 

I've never been on a single server where this penalty system is in force.

Please Kunos kill it as soon as you possibly can.

 

I for one don't think I should be penalised for going wide onto the grass, already going to loose time by being on grass !

LATE4APEX

 

Seb Vettle would be disqualified from every race!

 

How about !

1st Warning, ( No slowdown )
2nd Warning, ( No slowdown )
3rd Final Warning, ( drive through )
4th Disqualified and removed from race

IMO -There should also be a max number of times people could vote to restart session etc etc !

Sometimes people who get a bad start keep clicking the vote button like crazy and it's sooo annoying !

 

Good idea, my preference would be....
1st Warning, ( no slowdown, but any places gained must be given back or drive through penalty)
2nd Warning, ( drive at 50% throttle or less for 5 seconds at drivers discretion within the next 30 seconds, plus any places gained must be given back or drive through penalty)
3rd Final Warning, ( drive through or if not enough laps remain 1 minute added to overall time )
4th Sent to pit box and inputs disabled until next session
5th 2nd time sent to pit box, kicked from server

Also only for cutting, not for running wide.

 

If the delta time was totally accurate the there could be a system where you get a notification (on screen display) that you have cut and you must complete the current lap at least X seconds slower than your best (say 1 second for example). If you cut more than once on a lap then the delta penalty increases 1 second per cut.
If you fail to take the penalty within that or the next lap then you are given a stop/ go?
Any gain made from increasing your speed on the following straight (monza or Spa for example) would be negated by the delta time penalty. If your mistake or having to avoid an accident has already cost you time then there would be no further penalty as you will already be behind your delta.
This also would mean that it makes no odds whether you potentially gain 0.1 of a second from a cut or 5 seconds from i mad cut as you will lose the same either way.

I realise this could still be abused if you were determined to do so (endurance races on worn tyres for example) but it seems to fit most of the bill?

What ya think?

Thanks

Nath

EDIT
This is not going to work for lap 1 or 2 as you will not have a representative lap time for the delta to be meaningful.

EDIT 2 Maybe for the first 2 laps the delta time is measured against your quali time or maybe quali time plus X seconds?

 

Some apps like Mini Apps have accurate deltas to personal best, stored per car/track. These could be used, and maybe stretched to 105% or so.

It's hard to determine if one slows down on purpose or not. So like you said, it could be easily abused. In my opinion slowing down on track is a bad idea.

I think it's better to stick to warnings and drive-through penalties. Warnings are given when someone cuts and gains a small amount of time, while penalties are given when someone gets too many warnings or cuts massively.

Two criteria for a drive-through penalty could be: X times a time-gaining cut per race, or Y seconds total gained time from all cuts.
Y takes care of massive cuts like full throttle monza T1, and X takes care of repeatedly making small cuts. X should be bigger for long races.

In my previous post I sketched how the advantage of one cut could be determined. I now realize its incomplete as the advantage may begin even before the cut starts (if you brake too late...)

Yeah it may look complicated but once implemented its easy for the driver.

 

It doesn't really matter if they slowed on purpose or not i guess as long as the delta time was slower. Also with the driver being in control of it then it can be done at a safe time rather than immediately after the cut point (in the same way a driver would (should) slow to let faster cars by under blue flag. A 1 second slow down is just an easy gentle lift on the straight for example).
I think it would undoubtedly be better if the severity of the cut and the cause of it was able to be determined by the game but if that is not possible to do reliably then i think this was will work well (all cutting will be treated the same way but it will be very hard to gain any time advantage from it.

Like people are saying. Without some human eyes on the situation it will never be totally fool proof so any solution is going to be a compromise.