Discuss rFactor2

But apparently they do it nowadays too. In entry and corner exit too. Not all the time but some specific corners. But I don't think they do it on races because of brake temps and fuel saving.


And this is from Formula1.com site "The fundamental principle of efficient cornering is the 'traction circle.' The tyres of a racing car have only a finite amount of grip to deliver. This can be the longitudinal grip of braking and acceleration, the lateral grip of cornering or - most likely in bends - a combination of the two. Racing drivers overlap the different phases of braking, turning and applying power to try and make the tyre work as hard as possible for as long as possible. It's the skilful exploitation of this overlap, releasing the brakes and feeding in the throttle to just the right degree not to overwhelm the available grip, which is making the best use of the 'traction circle'. The very best are those who can extract the maximum amount from the tyres for as long as possible."

 

Yeah, i figure he only does it when he's braking while having the steering wheel turned, to stabilize the car while braking.

 

It seems to do the opposite of help during trail braking though... If you have the brake bias set up perfectly for maximum deceleration (1g or whatever) that is a higher front bias than you want while trail braking (lighter deceleration to make room for cornering, thus more load on the rear axle)
So if anything you'd see gas pedal taper off at the same time as the brakes to get the latest possible braking.

That's purely from a theoretical pov, if people are doing it successfully in sims then either they constantly have the brake bias too far backward (and compensate by adding gas) or the sim is broken.

 

What's up with those brake markers being on the track before the chicane??

 

That is one of the main reasons to do it, you set bias more rearward then use throttle to balance the car out. Especially on downshifts which is one thing that in RF2 you can abuse more IMHO as you can pretty much shift at any rpm and hold some throttle to avoid compression locking. You obviously also need to move bias rearward for this or you would be locking fronts. Its a technique that is fairly common but I think in rf2 due to being able to use gears as the main rear brake opens it a bit more to abuse and makes it more needed to use this method as its a significant advantage in that sim.

In AC its still useable but not to the same extent as you cant shift at way too high rpm but you can still trail some throttle in some corners to get a bit more control. The same as into a fast near flat corner sometimes its better to keep it flat and dab some brake rather then lift of throttle.

 

I suppose for hotlapping it's feasible but longterm it just consumes brakes/fuel quicker (and using the engine/clutch to brake is obviously gonna consume less replaceable parts).

It does make the car more stable while braking but it's so inconsistent (amount of power depends on rpm) that I don't see how it could perform better than having brake bias set correctly for straightline braking.

 

What Vettel did seems to be what Ross Bentley described:

This sim-exploit doesn't look like this.

 

This technique exist (left Breaking right throttle)
So better you must this accept or leave it.
Every Driver drive different. Me personally use it in Kart and in hillclimb

Gesendet von meinem SM-G928F mit Tapatalk

 

Yeah, I too am using it during the winter time because it's a nice technique to perform controlled slides even with a FWD cars.

 

And here another example...

 

And here's how professional rally drivers drive on tarmac.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154917916015678&id=35390480677

 

Right.

 

this discussion has been going on for at least 15 years in simracing. It seems that no matter how many real life examples are shown, there will always be people out there convinced this is a "sim exploit". It simply isn't, it's just a "real time brake balance" under the right foot of the driver.. really, get over it. A lot of drivers develop it without even realizing.. some do it on purpose, some don't. But this does not change the fact that there is absolutely nothing strange or un-physical about it.
There was a famous example of a sim that got this really wrong making it into a bit of a meme.. but it was an isolate incident and doesn't make the technique less valid.

You'll find books that encourage it and some that don't.. just as everything else like, for example, downshifting, some (ie. Carrol Smith) will tell you you should forget about it and simply use the brakes ("brakes are for braking, gears are for accelerating" cit.).. some will tell you should always downshift. Up to you what you want to use, but it's all fair game, both in RL and in sims.

 

Of course this technique exists but there's something that prevents real life racers from doing that. Might be brake wear, temperatures (affecting also tyre pressures and temps), fuel consumption, who knows what different factors might be involved. But something there clearly is because you cannot see it happening (to the same extent), regardless of the engineer armies finding ways to get more performance out from the car.

 

oh come on... brakes that are designed to slow down a car at 5g from high speed surely won't die because there is a tiny amount of positive torque coming from the engine in mid corner!
Unless you are doing a 24h race and engineers designed the brakes to last EXACTLY 24h and 0.1 seconds then die.

By this logic if the track turns out being a little bit more grippy than expected the car will destroy itself?

 

additionally, those tiny amount of gas are just enough to remove engine braking torque without adding anything into the system... so drivers are simply trying to eliminate that element, in some F1 team the engine brake torque is electronically kept to "almost zero", and how is the ECU doing that? You've guessed it.. by applying throttle!.. is that destroying rear brakes? So why the very same operation done by a driver should create any problem at all?

 

It wasn't about "tiny amount of positive torque coming from the engine in mid corner" but overlapping brake and throttle through the whole braking and turn-in phase. That's the small difference.

Edit: Would be nice question to ask from guys like Nicki Thiim..

 

read the post above.. 10%-20% gas at high rpm is going to be MAYBE some tiny positive torque.. most likely zero, or close to zero engine brake.

 

Good point.

 

Hany I would like a comment regarding what you told about set-up. Is it normal that super opposite set-up files will give exactly same lap times to the same driver? Ok you might have different deltas in different parts of the track but with maybe some minor differences in set-up.
But what happens with completely different setups like super stiff or super soft, minimum wing or maximum wing? I find it really peculiar that you claim to had exactly the same pace.

Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk