Fast drivers and g27/g25

I was checking some times on RSR livetiming and noticed that most players that have really fast times are using g27/g25. Are these wheels easier to controll than other wheels? If it is, can someone explain why?

Also curious if someone here have changed from a g27/g25 to fanatec, thrustmaster or any other wheel and did you get faster or slower after the change?

 

the wheel doesnt do the driver

 

Fast drivers are fast because they have a lot of experience and quality practice time.

My 500 hours in AC alone with my G27 probably beats most people in terms of quality practice time, to the point where a wheel that should increase consistency and raise the limit slightly in some situations, doesn't matter.

I've seen fast guys with DFGT's, even. Although I've never seen a real, proper champion level driver with anything under a G25. So it seems that the mid-price Logitech wheels are barely good enough to get the job done, and I'd have to agree with that.

Apart from G27 gear clunking occasionally when rapidly sawing wheel, some input lag, enough to see if you look for it but not enough to feel consistently if at all for me, that is there for arguably all common USB wheels and weak FFB, the FFB is still very solid, and the information you get is enough to allow you to drive at an unimaginably high level.

 

It's whatever your used to.
And your seeing g25/27's because most people have them.

 

I went the other way around from a T500 to G27, even though I'm not any slower with the G27 it just lacks majorly in the enjoyment factor for me as I have been spoiled by the T500 for over 3 years. Just muddy and slow the G27 feels compared to the T500, feels like a toy for the lack of a better word... but maybe you see many people with G27/25 on that list because they are affordable and majority of the people have it compared to the fraction of userbase that uses thrustmaster stuff and an even smaller fanatec group and the microscopic servo wheel userbase. Just like majority of sim racers use a single monitor compared to triples/vr due to its affordability. Can't wait to pick my CSW v2 next month though.

 

I think its just because more people have g25 and g27 then the others. Sheer numbers mean its more likely a quicker guy will be with one of these wheels.

Someone quick will be quick with any good wheel from dfgt up, fanatec or thrustmaster isnt going to make you any faster it will feel a bit nicer thats about it. Even those wheels really arent any better at the limit and only when you get to the direct drive wheels do you get more accurate, faster and precise feedback that may help on the very edge of grip. Even with an accuforce or bodnar wheel a muppet will still be a muppet and a real fast guy wont get much faster. Just like if you put 2 people into a laferrari one being Fernando Alonso the other his grandma, same hardware but one of them will likely be a little quicker I think .

That needs a quote, maybe I will add it to my sig with a credit to the author.

 

I've never actually used any wheel apart from a DFGT and G27, so I have no actual experience with high end, non-direct drive wheels.

I'd assume that they increase performance slightly, but I'm open to the idea of them just simply being more immersive.

I'm fairly sure a direct drive wheel, well out of most people's budget, raises performance somewhat. The response is, in all practicality, instantenous and although as mentioned I've never even touched one, I'd imagine that practically instant response + practically no force limit in normal driving means just a little more headroom for detailed forces, otherwise completely invisible to your G27 user. Things like subtle changes of steering when 4 wheel drifting right on the ragged edge of grip, that'd otherwise not be translated at all with a G27.

Even then, the G27 translates subtle force changes when 4 wheel drifting right on the ragged edge of grip. So it's debatable if a direct drive wheel is going to actually make anyone at all faster.

I'd be willing to be that triple screen + 300FPS + G27 with as little input lag as possible will beat a direct drive wheel on 1 screen with sub 100 FPS.
Last time I checked, a new CPU/GPU and 2 more screens is a hell of a lot cheaper than a direct drive wheel alone.

 

Probably pedals would make a bigger difference.

 

Also Arch I was kind of taking the piss just incase you thought I was paying you a compliment sorry as you and your quality practice time is about as good as many of your other gems Ive seen here. Like the time where you say that if you tried you would easily get a wr but you dont try. This is how you maybe devise your amazing practice time where its all a theory that if you did A+B you would get C except you never do A+B but still somehow believe you would still get C.

 

I forgot pedals.

Yes, exactly. A better brake pedal for anywhere from about 10 dollars to a few hundred, depends what you're going for, will shave off time more than a better wheel will. Although I've found the G27 stock pedal to actually be just good enough, but it's still a bit too easy to lock up. A better brake pedal probably increases consistency more than pure speed.

Why all pedals don't come stock with an added non-linear spring is far beyond me. It'd increase production costs by a few dollars at most. Of course, when they do include one, they charge a few hundred bucks extra for it.

*cough* G29 *cough*

 

I didnt mean to take anything away from the fast people being the "hurr hurr g27/g25 easy mode"-wheel but when i noticed it the thought about it somehow being easier, or rather other wheels giving forces that makes it harder, to drive fast came up to my mind. I even noticed that a lot of them have a pretty high field of view while they 'only' running a single 1920x1080 monitor so the discussions ive seen here on the forum about a 'correct' fov will make you faster seems a bit off. Its possible that even racing games are the same as many first person shooters, some people will be good at any of them and have something that just makes them fairly decent to begin with in every game they play. I dont mean that some can just buy the game on steam summer sale and setting world records but i hope you understand what i mean.

Thanks for the answers. I think its really interesting with people being really fast in racing games for some reason, more so than reality almost

 

G29 looks like a G27 had an incestual relationship with a Logitech Gamepad! Never have I seen such ugliness outside of a island of Jeremy Clarksons!



P.S. As for be/com/ing faster because of wheels or hardware, it is sometimes the case but it is the practice and devotion to race and race and then race some more.

 

I saw a clip from ISR and Darin Gangi said it was pretty much a G27 with a braking mod (first impression from when he used it).

And correction: It looks like G27 and DFGT got a child togheter. Which is cute but... not-for-that-price-tag-cute.

 

@kofotsjanne

You can turn the forces down in better wheels, and make them basically into a slightly nicer G27, because of some more clipping headroom.

That's about it and from what I know, based on FFB engineers' words, a better wheel won't necessarily provide you better FFB per se, because it's really down to the sim to transmit the forces and the wheel just interprets them. There's only a handful of ways to produce force with a FFB wheel, so the extra fidelity comes from more clipping headroom, meaning that you can run forces higher, so very small forces actually move the steering and are felt as forces when on the limit, instead of not getting anything at all or just very little extra force on top of what's already there.

Throwing a car into a huge oversteery slide completely sideways and spinning it out in a sim with a consumer wheel means that the wheel stays relatively still. In a real car, you get all kinds of wheel movement, strong enough to break your thumb, easily.

 

I owe a G27 too. But that makes me not faster. I think it just because they are wide spreaded.

 

Have you tried any other wheel and if you have, did you get faster, slower or did you pull off the same times? If you have I understand that you didnt watch the timer and compared, but did you feel as fast?

 

I had DFGT first and I was makin faster laps then I bought g27 (that I thought I ll go faster) and I do slower laps.

 

How long have you had the g27? Is it possible that you need to get used to it, or are you simply slower with it no matter if you have got it for a while?

 

Yes I have tried other wheels but only while visiting other SimDrivers at home and trying their rig. But to be honest, I have not compared my laptimes and have no numbers therefore.
Subjective I had the feeling that I were a bit slower.
Possible reasons:
- Not familar with the new hardware and not my personal racing environment
- High torque DD wheels can make your arms tired over time
- The more complex/advanced the rig, the more work (physically and mentally) todo.
- Too much beer.

 

ive had dfgt g27 t500 and csp pedals. I dont think the wheel itself makes a massive amount of difference, the paddles are slightly easier on the dfgt and g27 for grabbing gears whilst turning, you soon get used to the fixed t500 paddles though. I found the g27 brake to be slightly easier than csp brake (never tried the t500 pedals) with a light spring it is easier to guage brake % by pedal travel than it is with pressure (for me.) the throttle pedal face is much larger on csp than g pedal set and I think it has a longer throw, so if anything I think csp throttle is easier. a lighter wheel is probably a tiny bit easier to make fast countersteer with, I think cogs are better than belts for this but I dont think it really makes a difference to lap times. noise is an issue for me, cog wheels take more concentration than belt to keep them from making harsh or loud noises but g27 pedals are alot quieter than csp.
(i hope that makes some sense, rushed reply on phone at work)