Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

As you wish (exactly the moment of contact):




I did some measurements (as exactly as possible with limited blueprints)
The result is 783 mm overlap (Audi front splitter - Lambo rear wheel hub)

That was my predicted outcome at the exit of Blanchimont at least. I didn't even assume this amount of room given by the Lambo as the Ferrari did for the Bentley.

Even if I disagree with your opinion about the accident props to you for this

Leclerc got a warning for this "forcing Hamilton off track" as far as I know.

You got my attention here mostly at the bolded part (It doesn't mean otherwise you get no attention of me).
What's your opinion about this accident? (this time I'm in the Ferrari):

Accident with race history:


Just the accident:

 

Bentley's fault.
You are very much alongside, the room available to the right of the Bentley is just (barely) enough for the Ferrari (must go off track, but no problem with that), the Bentley should have made enough room once the Ferrari is on his side, as there is a tire wall on the right side of the track, so, even without the Bentley going right (which he did, ever so slightly, but shouldn't) he should have cleared enough room for the Ferrari to continue without any contact.
Probably it would be considered dangerous driving by the Bentley, by not giving room for the car on his right side, even more considering the proximity of the wall to track.


I don't have a replay of the exact situation mentioned about backing out for the 2nd Monza chicane (defending to the left and then going right before the turn in, while the other car is not alongside), but I have the opposite, not backing out when suppose to and this time it's obvious the fault is of the green Porsche (me )

 

Heh ...
after i posted i put this together in PS to check whether i was right about the overlap ... came quite close to the real thing ... underestimated how slanted the corners of those cars are


Is there any overlap at all when he starts moving across? Judging by his onboard that was roughly under the elf banner bridge, which would put it almost 2s before impact, this would mean that he was on his line before you were alongside (which depending on the rules sometimes even means half a car or at least splitter/mid rear wheel):::

In general ... It was easier for you to back out than for him to judge whether you were marginally alongside (don't know whether any of the driver aids had to be used in that race), if you both get through the corner it's because he played along, if you don't then he didn't and it's on you imho

Kinda surprised how many here think getting rear ended like that on the very corner of their car puts them at fault tbh

 

@RS10 rules about required overlaps only apply on entry into a corner, on a straight the rules are different.

Its really the definition of that part of the track that people disagreed on. In my opinion, that part of the track is effectively a straight (since you can run at full throttle on both the inside and outside of the track without needing to cross to the other side), in those situations you cannot weave or block another car to cause it to lift or have to swerve to avoid contact, if you want to move over on another car you need to do it while they are far enough behind to be able to move to the other side of the track without lifting. Essentially you need to pick, then stick to your 'lane'.

If its entering a corner then the leading car gets to choose their line, unless the following car has a significant enough overlap for them to be have the right to be left space on track. Usually for me that would be the front wheels of the following car need to be at least alongside the rear wheels of the leading car at the turn in point, but yea, opinions sometimes differ on that.

 

There seems to be some interesting questions raised through this incident with differing views.
When is a turn not a turn? and,
How much overlap is required on turn entry to be granted the right to racing room?
I think a clear guideline for the latter would be a good idea for the developers to provide, or anyone who knows this rule for the blancpain series please confirm.
As for is this a turn, well it's called a turn but should straight rules apply or not? This is the point of contention here and otherwise everyone is in agreement.

 

If I’m not mistaken, Blancpain GT series sporting code is regulated by FIA and FIA isn’t very clear in overtaking manoeuvres.
FIA sporting code for overtaking is available here (Appendix L, Chapter IV - Code of Driving Conduct on Circuits, 2. Overtaking, car control and track limits: https://www.fia.com/file/113682/download/30204
Usually are up to the stewards to review racing accidents, either by race director report or by team report and the decision is made known in the notice board for the race in question.

Nonetheless, I believe I’m not mistaken to say there are commonly accepted driving etiquette that is usually followed, generally gathered by the drivers in previous racing series and not rarely, maybe quite the opposite, the stewards decision isn’t calmly accepted by all.

 

I would agree, its the Bentley at fault.

It was clear that you were the faster driver at this point so he should have let you go and tried to catch up on the next combination of corners (which the Bentley is actually quite good at, despite not having the legs on the straight).

Prior to this incident you both had a great battle, respecting each other and some good overtakes, so why did he now decided to do this?
I think when he went off track at the hairpin and you flashed him he spat his dummy out and that was maybe a reason why he closed the door on you.
I think when someone goes off the track like that (only a wheel) its obvious that they will try and get back on as soon as possible (especially when the adrenalin is pumping) and you should think that this may happen.
He might have seen your flashing as being aggressive perhaps.

 

Thank you very much for your reply and your very interesting point of view. People counted me faulty mostly complained because I left the track and was not able to complete the overtake before running out of track.
The Bentley driver was the same opinion like you about this incident.

I'll have a look when I'm back home.

Exactly this ^. Otherwise there would be no need for a discussion about it.

According to the Bentley driver the accident was the result of frustration about the race, the unusual seat position in the Bentley and underestimation of the speed difference at this point.

I've posted this incident here already some time ago:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...generic-discussion.60715/page-72#post-1106227

 

Im reviving this thread again with a video of my Cp Race. The incident happened in the second last lap and we were fighting for more than 15 mins of the race. I knew that i gain more speed out of the section before and wanted to go for the inside line, at the same moment he goes for a weird mid corner line and i try to dodge to outside in the breaking zone which resulted in the contact. On the one hand i say im at fault for the contact, on the other hand isnt this some kind of blocking when you moves to the inside as soon as you see the car behind you going for it ? Wasnt the first time he blocked the inside which resulted in me locking up or nearly crashing into him.

 

Come on...
First of all, he was in front, and has all right to defend a corner.
You should have anticipated that.

 

He doesn't move under breaking and keeps his line, you were both not 100% commited to defending/attacking and that caused the incident but it's on you as you were behind.

 

I would agree here:

 

for me the aston turn in to early, pretty much as if he was not side by side. he toke the normal turning point, Side by side there, usually both drivers should do kind of a late apex so they dont go wide on exit. looks to me from replay the aston was over maybe a litle above the speed.

 

For start u shouldnt put the names of the drivers.. and second that kind of driver should be the kind to be banned from the game. they dont know to race or behave against other humans.

 

Ok, i dont even know how to speak about both incidents. they both 100% your fault. Sorry saying it like this but u clearly have no experience yet to race online. its not a question of how fast u are or not. its a matter of knowledge on how to properly behave in certain situations. If in clear situations like this u have doubts, im pretty sure it would be really hard to have a good clean race against u.

On the first incident, its not a matter of the other guy cutting u, he DIDN'T cut u. U went of track, u got slower by that, he caught to u without even trying to. Only for that reason u should already be careful on rejoin the track. u know there is a car next to u and thats kind of a racing line there, its very easy to go wide there as u went, so thats a "racing line". And then if u go of track doesnt matter if he cuts u or not.. u are of the track if he is a gentleman he may allow u to return into the track if he is dirty he wont do it. either way u cant rejoin with a car there. Start thinking in a different way, instead of looking at your own belly look at the overall question, u are out of the track other cars are on track, can u rejoin ? no. there are cars on track and u are not on it. Its pretty much comum sense, u are REjoining, they are on it already. and u said on other comments u had no were to go, well in that case u have one thing to do hit the brakes.. if to one side u hit the wall to the other u are unsafe rejoining the track with cars next to u, u have one only option, brake.... and dont think im not right, imagine in real live a driver rejoining the track at a corner exit on a racing line, do u think thats possible ? why do they cut corners when they go wide? so they dont rejoin the track in front of others.

The second one after watching one of your comments its still more clear u shouldnt be racing online. u complete lack the experience. sorry for saying it like this. i have been put out so many times by people that dont really know what they are doing on track and they even talk s** after the race thinking they are correct. that when i see this stuff my head goes directly to "dont race online please".

 

just one note to the 1st incident... if i were the Aston, i'd expect that he will rejoin and i'd leave more space, i (aston) would have enough momentum to get through anyway. he didn't leave one car width space, however, the bentley's rejoin was a bit sudden when he moved to the right.

2nd incident is full on the Bentley

 

he (aston) doesnt need to give one car width to the guy outside of the track, im not saying the aston couldnt have done it better. he could for sure. im just saying that the guy going out of the track is the one doing it wrong when rejoining. and by the look of it i think that even one car width wouldn't be enough for that rejoin

 

I don't really like to point fingers, but what is enough is enough....

Today's CP race at 22:00, Laguna Seca.
Just a quick note: I really dislike that track, but the developers managed to build us a version, that I can actually enjoy, in case I have to race on it. - And this is a huge compliment.

Anyway, back to the point.

The guys name is: Daniel Ruiz Garrido [ESR] - Just in case someone had similar experience with him.

Here is the Original incident.
I managed to spin the car, and do some damage to it, so I was getting lapped. (I am in the Black-Red Porsche #910)

We go into the first corner, the Porsche, and the above mentioned guy in the Mercedes approach, i try to give them as much room as possible.
Yet the Mercedes does not stick to the inside, (Where I left him plenty of room), he pulls to the outside.
I refused to go onto the dirt, and we touch, he spins.

Video here:


Another view:


So he decides to hunt me down....
He waits in the last turn, and gives it a try:



He then goes into the pits, repairs hes car, and gives it another go:


So I drive into the pits for repairs, (he too), and get this message:




So, as this is still not enough, he gives it another go at corkscrew:
(I already anticipated it, so i tried to cut the corner as much as possible, but was not fast enough, as you can see.)



And just for fun, another view of this - he even broke the game.




I really don't think the original accident was so bad.
I think I really left him as much room as I could, and I don't think anyone should expect a slower car to go onto the grass/dirt just to let a faster pass.
MAYBE I could have waited, until he is in front of me, but I thought he will get a good acceleration out of the corner, and end up in front anyway. (He did not).

We are all amateurs, and try our best, but sometimes things just don't go that well.
Sure I am disappointed too, if I get spun, but that happens even to the top Pros, and they drive the really expensive cars in real life...
So I really don't understand this behaviour.


But I am still happy, as I finished the race in 10th place.
My SA actually increased from 85 to 86 - Would have expected it to drop.

 

Small incident I was part of the other day. It was light raining for 5 laps at this point. Was this just a racing incident?

https://streamable.com/2pj56

 

Thanks for your reply.
It must be difficult finding races when you are as good as you are.
I wish I too could never make mistakes.