Hard to catch slide without stability control

F40- I too ended up taking the front toe out to very high settings. It felt much better. I think I adjusted the rear toe as well, but don't remember how much.

 

And there it is.

Do you feel like a real man now? What are you, some immature kid? Grow up!!!

My set up went from complete ice conditions to really close driving conditions except for a few cars like the F40. The way I have to steer it and the guys I see on videos steering is way easier. It feels like I'm trying to drive the F40 with about 1500 degree wheel angle. I'm sorry I'm not telling you what you want to hear.

The butt was pretty good though. Good job!

 

Sorry! Just noticed it's a face.

 

I think I got it a little better, but slow speed skids seem a little ice like yet. The other cars (yellow bird) feel more natural in VR.

 

I've wondered about the F40 front end behavior/feeling and it was on a list somewhere in my head to post a thread discussing that. I was going to ask what other people have front Toe set at.

It's strange. With default setup, it feels normal around the center 30 degrees or so. But hitting a medium speed turn that needs around 90 degrees (or so) of wheel rotation felt like there was loads of front toe in.

 

Imagine trying to drive a real F40 with toe out any kind.

 

I have been insulted so much on Steam with this topic that I reacted too quickly.

Not feeling it in my butt is a big problem, your right. I can, however, drive other cars pretty good. I'm sure you could beat me. I can tell when it doesn't feel right though.

Sorry for getting your "butt" comment wrong. I feel like a butt.

 

a tip is to not care about what people type on steam but go here or whatever game you checking for help from. If you search help from Steam you will most likely go empty handed and started a ****storm where people that are supposed to be gamers threat you like ****.
This forum is much more friendly!

 

Thank you much. All of you. For great support. I can't drive anything except Assetto Corsa. There is something about it that feels soooo good. So good in fact that I used it for about 10 months with a very annoying ice slid. I only just recently started doing season races. That's why I don't have any points. I got Oculus Rift a year ago this month and been addicted to both. There is something amazing about spinning in circles in VR I guess. Maybe I am immature like my wife has been claiming for the past 24 years.

May all your corners be deep and your foot light my friends.

 

you know that the guy in the video is keiichi Tsuchiya right? the original dori king, he is shifting the weight of the F40 like a master and did a incredible fast lap for a street car in Tsukuba

 

I have looked at a lot of videos of guys drifting F40s. It's not how good they are drifting that I'm taking note of, it's how much wheel movement they are making corrections with.
I fly model air planes. Would you believe the small planes are most difficult to fly. They are very twitchy because of their size. That is what the F40 feels like.
That or 1500 degree wheel angle.
The Yellow Bird is hard to handle but it steers more accurate. This car is the king of turbo lag and II'm pretty sure it has a shorter wheel base too.

 

There you go, wasn't meant as in insult at all. But too many times people who come from real life expect things to be identical and are too quick to judge. In simracing, you have to make due with less feedback, and that takes a while to get used to, even more so coming from real life racing. With time you learn what kind of feedback you want and you can deal with the lack of butt-meter almost perfectly. But as I said, it takes time. I've done track days too and I can understand that it could be quite difficult to adapt.

It's hard to tell if you don't have certain settings a bit out of whack, but for me the F40 is perfectly fine, it's probably the best car in the sim, IMO. Give it some more camber (a bit less on the rear than on the front), minimal toe all around (live value, not setup).

But yeah, don't get the wrong idea, I don't mean to belittle you or anything, I was a "rookie" at one point too. But since then I've spent enough time at a very high level of competition than I kinda know what I'm talking about driving-wise

 

I used to fly model airplanes as well. I have a 500 size heli I haven't flown in a very long time. I have a very small 150 size heli I fly every once in awhile.

This is something you should think about and very well could be influencing things.

I have tried to discuss the difference between controller wheel size, and car/virtual wheel size and how the mismatch leads to a not completely accurate control and/or feel of the car. I used an RC controller as an analogy; Lengthen the sticks to decrease sensitivity/control surface throw (front wheel angle on car)--comparable to using a larger controller wheel than what virtual/car has--, shorten the sticks to increase sensitivity/control surface throw (front wheel angle on car)--comparable to using a smaller controller wheel than what virtual/car has.

Unfortunately most folks didn't quite understand; however I am to blame as well as my opening post was a wall of text. I mounted a few inches bigger wheel on my G27. It felt so much better to me. Others will probably chime in and say that will reduce your force feedback, and it stresses your controller more. True, everything is a compromise.

Also, others are probably going to say, "Wheel size doesn't matter, degrees is what matters." And that is patently wrong. Both matter.

 

Oh, I should have said earlier. With the F40, I too have trouble catching slides--compared to all the other cars--and my experience has been similar to what you are saying about it. I have no idea if that is accurate handling or not.

 

I think the feeling of easyness of any sim is always a controversial topic. People can take such opinions in so many ways. Some feel it as an attack against their sim. Many people especially feel that words like simcade are always derogatory terms even if it not meant like that in all cases. For some people it goes that far that they don't even want to be associated with anything that is not seen as good real sim by the people they spend time with.

Some people see the difficulty of the sim as direct correlation with its realism. The harder it is the more realistic it is. Therefore any such criticism is taken personally as well. Someone thinks they are driving a real sim and then someone comes along and says it isn't so. In the end it boils down to differing opinions and ideas.

Other take such criticism as personal insults. It is seen as an attack against their own ability to make informed decisions and to be able to tell the difference between a real sim and something that is not quite a sim. That or then it is taken as an insult towards their ability to drive. Someone says something is too easy and someone else who finds it challenging may find such remarks disrespectful and personal.

Then there is the group that sees any kind of feedback as whining. Usually the response then is to go drive something else, learn to drive or stop being depressing debbie.

This is all problematic because the easiness of driving feeling is extremely hard to measure and quantify. It relies so much on just feel that it is easy to make mistakes. It is easy to see one thing causing an issue when it can be many things at once. In my earlier post I kinda assumed that the issue could be that traction circle is more square than circular in ac. But after looking at some bits of telemetry I don't see any clear issues there.

Yet I clearly feel something is off. Cars are just too easy to catch. But finding what it is is extremely difficult. I'm sure it is frustrating for kunos to read these kind of posts that don't really offer any kind of leads as to what could be the cause here. But it is similarly frustrating to me as well. Feeling something is wrong and not being able to make any kind of worthwhile input to what it is other than "I feel this way".

 

The first part of your post I call "The Problem with Humans."

 

There are so many things that could be wrong and it is possible that it's not Kunos' fault. All I know for sure, if I bough an F40 and it really drove like that and I lived, I would be looking for something wore out like the tires, hardpan bar bushings or settings or make sure everything was connected in the suspension. There is no way that car would pass a safety the way it is in my set up. Even the AC Shelby and go carts will steer into the skid. When you move the steering wheel in the beginning of a drift, something should change in the way the car is moving, for good or bad. The only way nothing would happen is if the steering wheel is not moving the front tires.

There are some pretty good apps out there now, but I think there needs to be an easier way to gage or measure our set up quality. If Kunos could do that, they would have the sim market cornered. I know they have the 'benchmark' for frame rate, which is a start, but if I could drive a car around a test benchmark and get a percentage of accuracy. That would be helpful.

I think it's fair to say, sim driving is harder then the real thing. I have a friend that gives flying lessons and he can't fly the sim wreath a crap. In fact, all his students can fly better then he can in the sim, but in the air it's a different story. That's not the first time I heard a pilot say that. That might explain the hostility I get from my friends, here at home, when I bring up the topic of sim racing.

I think other sims like P Cars, I Racing and RaceRoom Racing Experience are good, but I can't say for sure, because I can not figure out their home page well enough to have an honest test. I play around with them sometimes and get really frustrated and come back to Assetto Corsa. I find everything and its straight forward.

 

Well I can't help but disagree. The f40 as it is is very very good atm. At least for the me the default setup is spot on. The car rotates nicely but takes some skill to get it turned into the corner but once you get it to turn it goes into corners in small 4 wheel slide and feels very satisfying when you get it right. If you can get confident with the car it is very rewarding to drive. It has its challenging corner entry where you need to come off the brakes and turn in bravely and maybe little bit sooner than you feel comfortable but when you do it the car goes to the apex almost on its own. Get it wrong and turn in too early and run wide. Turn in too late and the rear steps out and you go wide and kill all your momentum. It is a little bit on the easy side as it is unspinnable but fun regardless. It is not the corner entry widowmaker it was in 1.2 anymore. For me one of the very few cars that actually feel better overall after 1.3.

Once you get your corner turn in correct and find yourself at the apex the thing just launches itself out of corners in perfectly controllable small power slide. It has insane amounts of grip on corner exits. But at the same time if you get it wrong it bites. It has well defined peak on its tires so there is clear feeling difference when you are on it and when you are off it. You may give it too much throttle which means you need to lift. You may get little wiggle when the power comes just as the rear tires are going over a bump. Your slide may be interrupted by the rev limiter which can also cause a wiggle. It never really spins out because all the slides in ac currently seem to stop and stay at 30-40 degrees yaw angle but at least for me the car is very nice.

It is more challenging compared to 458 or mp4 in that the f40 can actually break traction. The 458 and mp4 just ease into a power slide that is super easy to control and those slides practically keep going on by themselves whereas with the f40 being able to achieve the same thing means you need to do something right. The f40 does suffer a bit from that for fast lap times you can literally drift it around slow and mid speed corners and be faster.

It is very rewarding car that has lots of depth imho.

 

If you are used to play ice racing, maybe all the rest (rl also) is too easy

 

That does sound good. Now I really want get it working. I can tell it's a fun car to drive from the videos I've seen.

I have no steering once it let's go, even at slow 30 mph speeds, which looks and feels like an ice glide to finally stop at around10 mile an hour. I have too much traction straight and nothing sideways.
Even the AC Cobra reacts to quarter wheel turn. I'm not saying or expecting perfect out come every time, but a reaction of some sort would be nice.
1500 degree wheel angle is what it feels like.